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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: The Brush Painters Society Reply with quote

This club accepts membership to those of us who do not have the space to set up an airbrush and ventilation
In my case the decision to join the hobby coincided with retirement and our decision to move back to a condo in the city - i.e. no space
So I decided to make it a go with brush painting. This thread if for sharing methods developed to handle this challenge.
I hope others will join and share their discoveries as well.
After failed attempts with Tamiya I settled on using Vallejo paints and a flat brush. See pic below for sample of materials and example of painted models.
70.524 medium thinner is the secret ingredient that allows applying the paint without brush marks.
For each coat of solid colors, about 8 drops of model color paint, 8 drops of thinner and 1-2 drops of water to achieve milk like viscosity.
Paint dries in 10-15 minutes, 4 to 5 coats needed for proper coverage.
Metallic colors have proven to be a much bigger challenge. A mix go color and metalizer is the only way to achieve results without marks.
Metalic blue: 3 blue, 1 duraluminium, 3 thinners, no water
Gold: 2 light browns, 1 gold and 2 thinner ration. Again no water.
I use 1 brushed coat of Future before decals, and 2 more coats over decals.
Nowhere near as nice as airbrush but still pretty nice. A mid shine finish not unlike laquer paint jobs of the seventies. OK for my dark side / gray side subjects.
Please share your tips, I still have a lot to learn!
[url
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bangor boy



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vraiment bon, monsieur!

Thanks for the mixing and technique tips. It's good to learn of an alternate strategy for the colder months.
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1fozziebear



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy cow, much better than one would have thought. better than me with a rattle can.

this is good info and is very useful. What size brush and hair?
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Schumacher330



Joined: 07 Apr 2018
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful work sir!
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Dan Belcher



Joined: 10 Feb 2020
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very impressive work!
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tested many brushes but the one I keep going back to is the Privateer Press flat brush 93090. I believe it is synthetic bristles. I purchased at my local arts & crafts store. Also available online at Amazon, Walmart and others. About USD $15.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Pierre. You have some impressive results . You might have just turned me on to this type of finish. Do you have to do any polishing? Did you have to mix colors to get your Petty blue? If I could paint where I actually build the model instead of going out doors , that would be very awesome.

Last edited by MarkJ on Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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1fozziebear



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The beauty of his process is that post-assembly corrections and touch ups should match perfectly vs decanting from a can. Which for me never looks the same. I think I have some garage sale bodies that will be experimented on. I haven't brush painted a model since I was 13 using Pactra paints in the funky ribbed bottle.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent!!!
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,
I do not polish my cars but would love to learn the technique and products from other members. I would like to improve my clear finishes
Petty blue is always a challenge and yes I mix colors.
The 3 petty cars below
Superbird is the latest: 9 parts sky blue 70.844, 1 part dark blue 70.930
67 Plymouth: 9 sky blue, 2 dark blue and 1 sky grey 70.989
Talladega: my first build about 4 years ago. I think it had less dark blue
As you can see I am still tweaking
Reds are even more fun!
[url[/url]
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark's comments about polishing needs got me thinking.
My base coats are flat in finish but seem smooth.
The Future clear is looks wet when applied to glass but takes a bit of a grainy texture over base coats.
Hummm.
Thinking my multiple thin coats may expose pigments a bit and causing this graininess to telegraph through the clear coats, no matter how many coats I apply.
This morning I experimented with 2000 grit wet sanding (very delicately)
the hood of my 67 Petty Plymouth, then brushed a coat over.
Wow, from a 6 to 9 finish
I'm excited!
Picture below, only done it on the hood.
[url[/url]
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre, You can get a polishing kit at hobby lobby. Its made by Alpha Abrasives , I just purchased a new one myself And the grits go from 3200 to 12000. You use them with water and I do one area at a time till done. like I take a hood and do it with the 3200 till I dont feel any drag on the pad which really doesnt take to many swipes. then move on to the next one till you finish with the 12000. It doesnt take that long and the results are mirror like but still with very, very fine scratches that the future will eliminate. I will p.m. you the results I had on my last polish job. It was acrylic lacquer that started out pretty dull but I was pretty pleased with the result . I'm sure you should get the same result on what your using, just dont rub too long on the heavier grits because you might go through to the primer. When the pad stops dragging your through with that grit and can go to the next one.
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bangor boy



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 274

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hobby Lobby - at last check - doesn't ship to Canadia. Plus it can take a while getting stuff shipped up here (38 days for paint from MCW in Ohio). The added costs of shipping and currency exchange can double the price of some items.

Pierre, if you can't get this stuff via local sources (I've been to Udisco. Great stock) and want to keep costs and shipping delays down, try Wheels & Wings Hobbies here in downtown Toronto. They have everything you're looking for in paints (Vallejo, Tamiya & more) and polishing materials galore.

https://www.wheelswingshobbies.com/

If you need to speak to someone, Kyle is a walking encyclopedia.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip. Right, Hobby Lobby does dot ship to Canada. I found what I needed on Amazon. I can also order through a great shop here named JacHobby (they can get anything and ship country wide). I stopped going to Udisco because of poor service.
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bangor boy



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked their website. Looks great. Sad to hear about Udisco but not surprised. I bought a Moebius Hudson kit there (still sealed) and it was missing wheels and decals. They wouldn't exchange it.

It was a little crazy trying to go there last summer with traffic problems from all the work on the Decarie autoroute? Looked like an endless construction adventure - jobs for life!
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work! I salute you!
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the multiple feedback gentlemen,
I will update the "club" on progress of current project
Working on Tiny Lund Charger Daytona, refining my technique and adding new elements based on exchanges and advice from MarkJ
body will be wet sanded with 2000 grit as usual
New step: Vallejo surface primer color gray 70.603 - brush painted of course
color coat will be a mix of Vallejo model color and metal color. Mix ratios TBD
New step: the base coat will ne polished prior to sealing for decals.
I will update with pictures, timing will depend on acquiring & receiving new materials.
I have no idea if this will work...
Shocked Surprised Confused
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
Thanks for the multiple feedback gentlemen,
I will update the "club" on progress of current project
Working on Tiny Lund Charger Daytona, refining my technique and adding new elements based on exchanges and advice from MarkJ
body will be wet sanded with 2000 grit as usual
New step: Vallejo surface primer color gray 70.603 - brush painted of course
color coat will be a mix of Vallejo model color and metal color. Mix ratios TBD
New step: the base coat will ne polished prior to sealing for decals.
I will update with pictures, timing will depend on acquiring & receiving new materials.
I have no idea if this will work...
Shocked Surprised Confused


I'll be staying tuned for updates. I'm all in on this process. My next build, which will be a one tone paint job, just to make it easier on myself, so I can see if I can even do it right. I have a certain 61 chevy in mind.
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A brush painting 'sticky' might be a good idea.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
A brush painting 'sticky' might be a good idea.


Totally agree with that, Bill . I plan on contributing to it, if it happens.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, we have a sticky. Thanks to the moderator that got it done. I got my starter kit the other day. Spent 140 bucks on it so I'm all in now.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I painted the engine with vallejo trying to get a raw aluminum look. Dont know if it looks that good. Maybe when i get the webers installed and the black parts of the engine painted it will look better.

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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, this does meet the standard. I use Vallejo for most of my work but not for small metallic engine, exhaust or suspension parts. Tamiya acrylics for those.
Attached are 2 pics showing some of the products and results
How I do parts I want to look weathered, tarnished or raw.
1- base color is done with FLAT Tamiya paints. Typically 1 part metallic color with 2 part solid color to avoid the toyish silver look.
Usually XF-16 alu with XF-66 gray but sometimes some flat black when I want a darker finish
I thin with a bit of X-20A thinner to get good flow, do a coat, wait 2-3 minutes and add 1-2 drops of water to my leftover paint for a quick second coat
This avoids the second coat to bite into the first (Tamiya...)
2- After drying of 1-2 hours I rub the part with a cotton swab to bring out the metallic a bit
3- I then give it a wash with Vallejo 76.521 or 76.523
4- After drying I use Tamiya weathering masters to highlight certain areas like soot (on master B) for end of exhaust dumps or burn blue or red (on master D) for exhaust bend heat stress effect.
[url
[/url
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, Pierre. That's a lot to digest and of course hobby lobby does not sell Tamiya bottle acrylic paint. Also they dont sell any vallejo primers or aluminizer. I guess they dont think we need to prime our models. However they do sell tamiya white primer in the rattle can which I'm trying to get away from. I want to brush paint only. I guess I need to find another source for my painting supplies.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am lucky here to have a very serviceable local store here in Montreal. What they don't have on the floor they will gladly order from the US for me.
It seems like you are not so fortunate in your area. Time to go online then. You have great online stores in your country, MegaHobby.com, Internethobbies.com and others.
Your current project is way too impressive to not use the right coatings needed to achieve the results you deserve!
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
I am lucky here to have a very serviceable local store here in Montreal. What they don't have on the floor they will gladly order from the US for me.
It seems like you are not so fortunate in your area. Time to go online then. You have great online stores in your country, MegaHobby.com, Internethobbies.com and others.
Your current project is way too impressive to not use the right coatings needed to achieve the results you deserve!


You may have heard of food deserts where people live very far from any grocery stores and have to drive 50 miles to find one. Well I live in a hobby shop desert. I'm 25 miles from the fourth largest city in the united states and I would have to drive to downtown Houston to find a serviceable hobby shop. Guess I'll be ordering some stuff. I have been one time many years ago to downtown Houston and I'm not going back. Felt very uncomfortable the whole time I was there.
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bangor boy



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting post about Houston, Mark. Once read an interview with singer/songwriter Lyle Lovett (I'm a fan), who lives in the north suburban district of Klein, where he still raises horses, but has sprawling suburbs all around him.

He said when he was younger, it would take a half hour drive to get into Houston. Now, it takes a half hour drive to get clear of there.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangor boy wrote:
Interesting post about Houston, Mark. Once read an interview with singer/songwriter Lyle Lovett (I'm a fan), who lives in the north suburban district of Klein, where he still raises horses, but has sprawling suburbs all around him.

He said when he was younger, it would take a half hour drive to get into Houston. Now, it takes a half hour drive to get clear of there.


Yes , I have to check on some property from time to time in the crockett area and we go an hour out of our way through baytown and liberty just to avoid the mess that is Houston. Its a very scary place to drive on the interstates that go through that place. The people drive like maniacs. Cut you off and almost take off your fenders so much, its just very unsettling.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre, I repainted the engine with a createx paint called wicked aluminum. Its acylic but it has that toyish gloss to it that you were talking about. What vallejo paint could I use as a dullcote clear for a wash to make it less toyish. maybe it doesn't even need to be a clear. I found out I can get Vallejo primer from micro mark , so before I start my next build, I will order some from them.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the "boyish" look comes either from too much metallic (why I mix with solid gray to tone it down) and/or too much gloss (why I use flat paints for metallic parts)
You may want to add a flat varnish to improve the finish. Option 1 is 10/1 mix of Future and Tamiya X-21 flat base. Option 2 is Vallejo 70.520 matt varnish.
After the matt coat, washes would bring details out nicely and also provide a bit of weathering to the part.
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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, meant to write TOYISH look...
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
I found the "boyish" look comes either from too much metallic (why I mix with solid gray to tone it down) and/or too much gloss (why I use flat paints for metallic parts)
You may want to add a flat varnish to improve the finish. Option 1 is 10/1 mix of Future and Tamiya X-21 flat base. Option 2 is Vallejo 70.520 matt varnish.
After the matt coat, washes would bring details out nicely and also provide a bit of weathering to the part.


Thanks. I will see if H.L. has some.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update on my current project where I am adding new elements to the process after discussion and advice from fellow modelers
I added a primer step. In this case Vallejo Panzer Gray (almost black). Brush painted of course
Photo of body with 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of base color. Going for a blackberry metallic blue with mix of Vallejo paints
[url
I then polished the base coat 4000 to 12000 grit in steps
Photo of polished body wit 1 coat of Future for decals apply
[/url
So far a little bit smoother than my previous attempts. More to come
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After decals and 2 coats of Future here is the results
[url
I see an improvement with the added steps but I am unsure about polishing the color coat. On this car I can see a bit of variation of color appearing in the base color after polishing it. Perhaps the Vallejo goes on so thin that there is not much room for polishing.
Curious about polishing the clear layer instead I did a quick test on an old build
6000, 8000 and 12000 steps than 1 coat of Future on top
Picture taken with reflected light to show worst case

[/url

Help needed from fellow modelers. what are your opinions on polishing the color coat or the clear coat. What is your preference and methods used.
Thanks
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish you could do a short video of perhaps painting a hood or something so we can see the brush technique and how thin/thick you make the paint.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre, Just a quick glance makes me think the 41 turned out more glossy then the 55 . In fact the pre decalled 55 looks better then the decalled version. But i t could just be the lighting for the photos. They both still look awesome and nobody can tell that its all brush painted which is perfect for me. Maybe a shot of the decalled 55 with the same lighting you had for the 41. Again, beautiful work going on here.
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Pierre Rivard



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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I took the pic of #41 on purpose with reflected light plus it was a black car that had been repainted plus I polished on top of decals. Not ideal.
Nevertheless I would rate it an 8/10 on my very subjective scale.
My previous builds I rated at 6
The finish 55 would be a 7
The pre-decal 55 somewhat less
An impeccable finish is a 10, a Belcher car a 12/10...depressing for the rest of us! Laughing
Kidding aside I like the progress and for my next build (JJ 63 Impala rebuild) I will integrate the polishing steps on the clear but prior to decals...maybe...
Will be posting more of the 55 in showroom later today
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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis, I did not forget your request for a video. Never done this so as soon as I figure it out I will post
Shocked
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
Dennis, I did not forget your request for a video. Never done this so as soon as I figure it out I will post
Shocked


Good news , Pierre. I would also like to watch your painting technique in a video. Really curious how you get the paint on and make it look like you used an airbrush. Let us know as soon as you have one.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
Mark, I took the pic of #41 on purpose with reflected light plus it was a black car that had been repainted plus I polished on top of decals. Not ideal.
Nevertheless I would rate it an 8/10 on my very subjective scale.
My previous builds I rated at 6
The finish 55 would be a 7
The pre-decal 55 somewhat less
An impeccable finish is a 10, a Belcher car a 12/10...depressing for the rest of us! Laughing
Kidding aside I like the progress and for my next build (JJ 63 Impala rebuild) I will integrate the polishing steps on the clear but prior to decals...maybe...
Will be posting more of the 55 in showroom later today


I was wondering if I used the gloss varnish after painting before I started the polishing? It says on the bottle it leaves a hard protective coat for the paint.
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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, that's where I am leaning and testing on my next build: polish the clear rather than the color coat.
I think it offers good potential for the Vallejo base with Future clear combo but it may not be the better way to do it with other base color and clear combos. Shared experiences from other builders would be helpful
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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, following on Dennis request for a video. Let's see if it works
[url[img]https://i.imgur.com/hqOZyED.mp4[/img]
It does not show thinning but I used 1 drop metal color all, 3 model color dark blue and 4 drops thinner medium
If you see brush marks, you need to thin more. Thinking thinned like airbrush paint as starting point
Here's a picture in good lighting after 1 coat. 1 or 2 more coats should do it
[/url
Hope this helps Dennis. I just played with thinning levels until I found something that works
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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i.imgur.com/hqOZyED.mp4
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you!!!!
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/hqOZyED.mp4


Awesome video , Pierre. Does it cost anything to do it on imgur? Did you use your cell phone or some other camera setup? You are so smooth with your paint strokes. You can see why you get the results you do. Thanks for the video.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished the engine using all Vallejo and Createx paints. I wanted to dull it down with matt varnish but h.l. did not have any, so i bought the satin varnish instead, but its still too glossy. I will see if the other h.l. in the area has the matt varnish


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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That engine is coming along very nicely!
Can't wait to see the installation in your GS
I did the video with the phone. I had to learn how to edit it to a max 1 min allowed on Imgur and format it into a smaller file size
Took a while to figure out how to post on the board. We learn every day!
Imgur is free...so far
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 683

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
That engine is coming along very nicely!
Can't wait to see the installation in your GS
I did the video with the phone. I had to learn how to edit it to a max 1 min allowed on Imgur and format it into a smaller file size
Took a while to figure out how to post on the board. We learn every day!
Imgur is free...so far


Thanks, Pierre. I've already got Imgur but it might be beyond my pay grade to figure out how to do videos with it. Watching your video and seeing your machine like precision makes me realize how I'm going to have to move quickly and have a plan before I start. I also need a better way to hold the model then what I have now. I'm thinking that you don't have to mask as much for two tone paint jobs because there shouldn't be any over spray. Is that a true assumption?
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 99
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, masking is easier as you say because of no overspray. I use Tamiya 2 or 3 mm tape for curves (the one that is plastic based) for a clean edge and I overlap with 6 mm regular tape on the non paint to give more margin.
Setup to hold parts is plain old rattle can for the body and old paint bottles for smaller parts.
Attached a pic of my "high tech" setup. Wink Wink
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Dennis O
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 655
Location: Louisville, Ky.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre I must ask if English is your first language? I have an acquaintance who is a native of Montreal and his English writing skills are not nearly as accomplished as yours. If you are a native French speaker I am VERY impressed.
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