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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 731 Location: deep south
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:35 pm Post subject: Out of curiosity.... |
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Back in the early seventies MPC produced a diverse series of NASCAR kits. I recall two Daytonas, Allisons Cyclone, Marlins Monte Carlo, Herks Chevelle and even a Pearson GTO. Johan covered the Superbirds. I wonder why none of the model manufacturers offered a Talladega or 69 Cyclone stock car kit? Was it because AMT offered the Torino/Talladega kit with stock car parts? Maybe Dave Van can share some insights? _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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DaveVan
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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What little I know!!!!
All the first GEN MPC kits were already in house. The Daytona was modified from the Charger and I think MPC was willing to do this because at the time the Daytona was so outrageous!(and famous...multi speed records) It sold well so they tooled the generic chassis and used bodies they had on hand to create 'new' kits with little money. Maybe the Talladega and Cyclone Spoiler was just not 'wild' enough?? Many folks can't tell the difference. Also by the time the NASCAR kits were selling well enough to tool all new bodies the TT and Spoiler were long gone....until AMT added parts to the Torino and PL did all new tools.
A LOT of folks from that era on the kit biz are gone....so who knows.
Just learned John O'Neil of AMT passed last year. |
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AndyS
Joined: 30 Jan 2019 Posts: 61
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Those MPC kits didn't come out until 1971. By that time the Talladega and Cyclone Spoiler II were already regulated out of NASCAR competition, due to the 305 C.I. rule (which was followed by an outright ban).
The big deal that I remember about those MPC kits at the time was that they were current-year - The Petty Plymouth, Baker Dodge and Donnie Allison '71 Cyclone came on the market while those cars were actually on the tracks. That was very unusual, although the 1970 Isaac Daytona had hit the shelves the previous year.
MPC also kitted the Brooks 305 C.I. Daytona only ran at Daytona, but it was still topical as the last Aero Car in NASCAR GN competition. And, as DaveVan said, the tooling could be adapted from the Isaac car. |
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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 731 Location: deep south
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I kinda figured you or maybe Tom Mooty might have some knowledge of that. If I recall correctly, the Fords and Mercs won more races than the Charger 500 and the winged, pointed nose Chryco offerings. Just struck me peculiar some of the biggest name drivers from that era didn't have kits offered. _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 731 Location: deep south
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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AndyS wrote: | Those MPC kits didn't come out until 1971. By that time the Talladega and Cyclone Spoiler II were already regulated out of NASCAR competition, due to the 305 C.I. rule (which was followed by an outright ban).
The big deal that I remember about those MPC kits at the time was that they were current-year - The Petty Plymouth, Baker Dodge and Donnie Allison '71 Cyclone came on the market while those cars were actually on the tracks. That was very unusual, although the 1970 Isaac Daytona had hit the shelves the previous year.
MPC also kitted the Brooks 305 C.I. Daytona only ran at Daytona, but it was still topical as the last Aero Car in NASCAR GN competition. And, as DaveVan said, the tooling could be adapted from the Isaac car. |
Makes sense to me. _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1296
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:26 am Post subject: |
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im building one of those 69 mpc daytona chargers right now and getting the nose to fit right is a major undertaking. But i think it turned out okay. It took a lot of styrene strips and a little bit of putty to get it done. They tell you in the instructions that you will have to use putty.
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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 731 Location: deep south
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:50 am Post subject: |
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MarkJ wrote: | im building one of those 69 mpc daytona chargers right now and getting the nose to fit right is a major undertaking. But i think it turned out okay. It took a lot of styrene strips and a little bit of putty to get it done. They tell you in the instructions that you will have to use putty.
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That is taking nice shape. Which car are you building? Kit chassis? _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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sentsat71
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 1237 Location: Fenton, IA
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:01 am Post subject: |
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For the '69 Torino from AMT was kitted as a 3n1 kit with the NASCAR version the 3rd option. I bought that kit back then. Came with generic decals....below is the box...
The build back then
This is what that orignal build has looked like since the mid '70's
As for the MPC Daytona, it was first issued molded in all red with the intierior tub unlike the the 1971 releases with the generic chassis. This kit was molded all in red with decals for the Isaac/K&K Insurance version. The indented part of the front doors of the #71 release were pushed outwards, not indented....for whatever reason, I never photographed that car. And that build did not survive the '70's....
However MPC did release the Brooks #22 in either 1973 or '74
_________________ Ed. K |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1296
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Mack, I'm using the mpc daytona charger kit for the street that was rereleased a couple of years ago. I'll have to scratch build all the interior stuff. And do some chassis mods as well. Its not going to be correct but hopefully look nice on the shelf.
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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 731 Location: deep south
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: |
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sentsat71 wrote: | For the '69 Torino from AMT was kitted as a 3n1 kit with the NASCAR version the 3rd option. I bought that kit back then. Came with generic decals....below is the box...
The build back then
This is what that orignal build has looked like since the mid '70's
As for the MPC Daytona, it was first issued molded in all red with the intierior tub unlike the the 1971 releases with the generic chassis. This kit was molded all in red with decals for the Isaac/K&K Insurance version. The indented part of the front doors of the #71 release were pushed outwards, not indented....for whatever reason, I never photographed that car. And that build did not survive the '70's....
However MPC did release the Brooks #22 in either 1973 or '74
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Is this the same tooling as all the other AMT Torinos? I'm guessing it is. I'm not sure what year this kit was first released. That box art looks early 70s? Maybe? Thanks for the info. _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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sentsat71
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 1237 Location: Fenton, IA
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Mack....
Don't know if AMT had a '68 Torino kit out or not. As I did not get hooked on NASCAR until Aug. 1968 when I found MY 1st issue of Stock Car Racing Magazine. Only bought it because it had the story of the Indy 500.....
But yes, it is the same kit that has been issued now and them. Not sure where I read it, (Maybe here somewhere) that AMT cloned one of the versions so they could continue making the stock version as opposed to the Modified Stocker version....
I have 2 of the 3n1 '69 Torino kits and 1 of the Modified Stockers......
Yes the 3n1 kit has the parts for a NASCAR version, but with the interior tub....as was the case for the few NASCAR kits that were 3n1 kits back in the day....However, the NASCAR air cleaner is for the 2 4bbl carb version though they only show the single carb setup....
IIRC it wasn't until late 1971 that MPC came out with their generic dhassis to go with the initial release of the Petty Plymouth, Buddy Baker Dodge, Donnie Allison Cyclone and the Jim Hurtubise 71 Chevelle..... _________________ Ed. K |
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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 731 Location: deep south
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the input guys, Mack _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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Bill J
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 392
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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AMT did make a 3 in 1 kit of the 68 Torino, it was the GT model. Came with the same race parts as the 69 3 in 1 kit, which was originally also the GT style, with a different grille than the later 69 Torino Cobra/Talladega kit releases.
The dual carbs were used in 1967 and 68 but the air cleaner is not what was in the actual race cars. In 1969 the cars were limited to a single carb and the Boss 429 was allowed at Atlanta and beyond. None of the 69 AMT Torino kits ever included a Boss 429.
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1296
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Bill ,for that photo. Is that one of Pearson's torinos, and if so which one? |
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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 731 Location: deep south
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Is it my imagination, or ate the Polar Light 427 and 429 engines a little large to scale? Seems like they're large for the engine bay. _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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sentsat71
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 1237 Location: Fenton, IA
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Actually, I'm amazed that I found model car kits, especially race car kits, outside of the AMT 3n1 kits, as back in North Central small town Iowa, there were no actual hobby shops near by. My usual place was a store in downtown Fairmont, MN that had a toy area and on one end of the toy aisle is where they had their mode car kits. The '69 Torino in an above post was found in a huge store called Gibsons....Kinda' like a Menards today, though not the lumber part. Albert Lea, MN had one as well. At the time, they were about the only stores open on Sundays....
Managed to find the original Monogram Don Edmunds Super Modified, the IMC Chaparell 2E Can-Am kit, the AMT Watson Roadster and RE Lotus, as separate kits, the roadster kit had generic decals with the car #71, not the Aggie/Parnelli decals...don't remember what the Lotus kit had for decals.....in 1969 found the MPC Gurney Eagle Offy of Bobby Unser's winning car from the '68 500...know trying to put the wheels in the hard rubber tires of both the Watson roadster and Lotus kits about killed my thumbs....
Of the kits mentioned above, only the Edmunds supermod survives The AMT Indy cars were gone by 1972....The Eagle Offy was scrapped except for the Turbo Offy engine...The Chaparell IIRC was tossed just prior to the move from FL to NM in 2005...A number of builds from the '70's were tossed in 2005.... _________________ Ed. K |
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bangor boy
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 447
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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sentsat71 wrote: | For the '69 Torino from AMT was kitted as a 3n1 kit with the NASCAR version the 3rd option. I bought that kit back then. Came with generic decals....below is the box...
The build back then
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Thanks for posting these. I have the AMT kit you've shown. But missing some parts (windshields, headers). The other '68 I have is likely the same kit but partially pre-built into a race car and a mess to dismantle and clean up.
If there's a weak spot with these kits, it's the A pillars. Skinny and flimsy and easy to break. Looking to pillage replacements from Polar Lights' Petty Talladoogies, which, unlike the Pearson and Yarborough cars, I'll never build but will use to scavenge parts from. |
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RussMyers
Joined: 24 Feb 2018 Posts: 24
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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way back in hallowed antiquity AMT also did a formal roofed Fairlane/Torino and a convertible version that had 68 Indy 500 pace car decals. |
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Bill J
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 392
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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MarkJ wrote: | Thanks Bill ,for that photo. Is that one of Pearson's torinos, and if so which one? |
Mark, I am fairly sure that is the 68 Torino that Ray Evernham restored and owns or did own. Not sure of the authenticity of the car, perhaps Dr. Craft knows for certain.
I can say that all of the 67 and 68 Ford 427 FE tunnel port, dual 4-barrel cars I have seen, had a similar air cleaner. Looks to be the same as earlier ones with a different top piece with 2 bolt holes. Probably a Holman-Moody piece, sold by them. There may be other types but I really never saw one like they kitted in the AMT Torino kits. Some folks use them on their models and that's fine.
I always assumed that the reason the Polar Lights kits came with a single 4 barrel 427 was because the Talladega was a 69 car and they started the season in 69 with the 427 and NASCAR required them to go back to the single 4 barrel.
As far as scale goes, the engine appears to me to be about right. I have used parts from other 1/25 scale kits on the engines and they fit fine. I think what PL got wrong was the scale of the frame width and underhood hoop. I always thought multiple people cut the molds and no one really coordinated that effort very well. The kit headers are all wrong but mostly the kit is correct in many aspects, although fit of parts is wonky and they require some patience to build up. |
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