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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: Results of the "Ghost White" printer... |
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This was a quick box stock build so I could try the new printer. The MicroMark clear paper is very thin and I fought wrinkling around the edges. Likely operator error. This is a local hero car. Every decal was printed on the HP with the exception of the center decal on the hood. None of the white was doubled, but I did put an "edging" decal over the white numbers and the sponsor. It was clear with an outline. This was the first white print I did with the new system. I pretty happy with the white as it is far more opaque than I thought. The standard HP toners get over-powered by a dark color.
_________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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halfbreed999
Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Posts: 181 Location: Just west of Chicago
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Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Thats great Dennis. Looks crisp and clean without the blocking blur you normally get from printers. _________________ If you bought it a trucker hauled it.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste, have you seen mine? |
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Firefly
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 812 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Looks real good.
I'm wondering, if you are printing white, are the outlines necessary? _________________ Bill Jobson is my real name. |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:29 am Post subject: |
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The orange outlines were to mimic what the real car had on it. They are not a requirement. _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Pat Redmond Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 304
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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That looks very good. Success! _________________ << On The Bench --- 2022 Elliott Hooters |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Dennis for sharing your results with us. Looks awesome and the single white layer looks great over the red. Do you think you would have to double the white if used over a black surface? Maybe you could post a short description of your process from when you loaded your data into the printer and go through each step you took till the finished sheets came out of the printer. I take it you printed a white underlay sheet first with the ghost toner and then a color sheet with the black toner? Is that correct? Congratulations on your success with the new laser printer setup. I'm hoping to purchase the setup soon and never have to print an inkjet decal sheet again. |
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DaveVan
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 Posts: 1578
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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Red is the hardest color to get whites to stay white.
If not done well the white turns pink.
On a black car the contrast is greater and I find easier to get them to look good. |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:40 am Post subject: |
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DaveVan wrote: | Red is the hardest color to get whites to stay white.
If not done well the white turns pink.
On a black car the contrast is greater and I find easier to get them to look good. |
Then this setup must do it well because the white decals on this build don't look pink at all. |
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DaveVan
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 Posts: 1578
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Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Agreed! |
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martinfan
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 270
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Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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That looks really good. |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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I made a discovery today. Clear coating the white decals seems to have some reaction. I sprayed a thin coat of clear over half a sheet and when applied over red they had the pinkish cast. The uncoated white decals did not. I have used future with no issue but I was trying to prevent the edge curling problem. More research to come.... _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Retro_Racing_Replicas
Joined: 10 Mar 2018 Posts: 67
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Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:54 pm Post subject: decals |
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I have printed a few sheets using the white toner, the sheets go on well on a black car, with no bleed thru, and looking to decal a red car, so will look out for the red if it needs a double decal.
The future on the decal looks amazing, but when i used a spray acrylic from the craft stores, it wrinkled the decals like a fish scale?
I found the old can of testors decal bonder and it went on smooth. So now I have half a decal.
Thanks to all for the feedback, I am learning about this printer, but have focused more on the artwork side. Bad art on a great decal printer is of no use to me, so I am taking it step by step.
Using Corel Draw, still need to learn about stripes, and swoosh graphics, like
modern cars have on them, flames designs, Home Depot swoosh designs, and splash designs like the Miller #2 back when it was red, blue, and yellow splash colors.
Steve |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I am doing all cars from the 60's and 70's so there were no swooshes..LOL. I really think this printer and toner has the capability to change our landscape. I see people skilled in artwork selling their wares kinda like music. You order a digital download and print it yourself. We may be a generation or two away from that but it is adapt or die. Perhaps down the road you want to build a 54 Ford short tracker. You order the 3D scan and print the model on your 3D printer. Then order the decals and print them. If you think about it, it's not that outlandish. _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:50 am Post subject: Re: decals |
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Retro_Racing_Replicas wrote: | I have printed a few sheets using the white toner, the sheets go on well on a black car, with no bleed thru, and looking to decal a red car, so will look out for the red if it needs a double decal.
The future on the decal looks amazing, but when i used a spray acrylic from the craft stores, it wrinkled the decals like a fish scale?
I found the old can of testors decal bonder and it went on smooth. So now I have half a decal.
Thanks to all for the feedback, I am learning about this printer, but have focused more on the artwork side. Bad art on a great decal printer is of no use to me, so I am taking it step by step.
Using Corel Draw, still need to learn about stripes, and swoosh graphics, like
modern cars have on them, flames designs, Home Depot swoosh designs, and splash designs like the Miller #2 back when it was red, blue, and yellow splash colors.
Steve |
Steve how did you purchase yours? entirely from micromark or something else? If it was from micromark how long did it take to arrive and who was the shipper? |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Micro Mark is WAY high on the price of the printer. I got mine via Amazon for $218 although the price has gone up since I ordered in early December. Not many sources for the toner. I bought mine from Micromark on Black Friday for 20% off and free shipping. Another source is a company named US Cutter or you can order from the manufacturer in Germany. Micromark got my toner to me in less than a week. _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Charles Carmichael
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Dennis O wrote: | I made a discovery today. Clear coating the white decals seems to have some reaction. I sprayed a thin coat of clear over half a sheet and when applied over red they had the pinkish cast. The uncoated white decals did not. I have used future with no issue but I was trying to prevent the edge curling problem. More research to come.... |
Were you using the Micromark decal paper? What brand & type of clear? I've had that same issue with red ink/toner on paper from Bel before. Micromark paper is garbage in my opinion. I've been using Bare Metal Foil clear decal paper and I haven't run into that problem when using a laser printer. |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I was using Micro Mark paper. Krylon acrylic clear.... _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Charles Carmichael
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Dennis O wrote: | I was using Micro Mark paper. Krylon acrylic clear.... |
Ah ha. The Krylon acrylic clear will definitely cause problems with the ink like you mentioned. |
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Hitman51
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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So ive done some more testing and learned something new the other night.
In the past i was printing the white layers seperately and printing the color layers off to the side and using them as an overlay. that worked and looked good but was very time consuming.
HOWEVER, over the past couple of nights i have double printed the white and color layer on top of each other. the results look simply amazing with one small hangup. the color layer seems to be printed to the left by about 10-15 pixels. So now i am experimenting with moving the color layer over by about that far before printing.
check the results of the last 3 cars in progress. keep in mind, none of these have clear on them yet. Really excited at the turnout so far.
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Are you doing this in one pass or two? _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Hitman51
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Two passes of white, 1 pass of color |
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Brandon Miller
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 105
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Hitman51, a couple questions as I am looking to replace my Alps:
1) How are you realigning the sheet from the first pass of white to the second pass? Is it just a matter of reloading the paper in to the tray?
2) Per the above question, if it's just a matter of reloading in to the tray, what do you think is causing the color misalignment?
Thanks in advance. |
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mprmprmpr
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 296 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:31 am Post subject: |
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These printers and toner looks great so far. I looked into the Ghost White awhile back when it first came out but it was not as easy to get back then.
I've never been able to correctly get the color to register over the white with any printer set up I've had other than Alps printers since the paper never leaves the printer during the printing process. With laser printers occasionally I'd get a few close, but never seem to get the color perfectly over the white. I always ended up with the white shadow/outline. That's one of the reasons I switched to my current printer since it has the ability to print color over the white in one pass. But the printer is about 5 times the price of this set up. I really like what I've seen with these Ghost White so far but unless I have to replace my current printer I'll be sticking with it.
. |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Hitman51 wrote: | So ive done some more testing and learned something new the other night.
In the past i was printing the white layers seperately and printing the color layers off to the side and using them as an overlay. that worked and looked good but was very time consuming.
HOWEVER, over the past couple of nights i have double printed the white and color layer on top of each other. the results look simply amazing with one small hangup. the color layer seems to be printed to the left by about 10-15 pixels. So now i am experimenting with moving the color layer over by about that far before printing.
check the results of the last 3 cars in progress. keep in mind, none of these have clear on them yet. Really excited at the turnout so far.
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How come the white NRA image on quarter and bed cover do not pop like the white #3 image on the door. |
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Hitman51
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: |
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MarkJ wrote: | Hitman51 wrote: | So ive done some more testing and learned something new the other night.
In the past i was printing the white layers seperately and printing the color layers off to the side and using them as an overlay. that worked and looked good but was very time consuming.
HOWEVER, over the past couple of nights i have double printed the white and color layer on top of each other. the results look simply amazing with one small hangup. the color layer seems to be printed to the left by about 10-15 pixels. So now i am experimenting with moving the color layer over by about that far before printing.
check the results of the last 3 cars in progress. keep in mind, none of these have clear on them yet. Really excited at the turnout so far.
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How come the white NRA image on quarter and bed cover do not pop like the white #3 image on the door. |
The NRA is gray/silver on the 1:1 truck, not white. |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:30 am Post subject: |
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OK. Well that explains that. Thanks for the reply. |
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Retro_Racing_Replicas
Joined: 10 Mar 2018 Posts: 67
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:07 pm Post subject: decals |
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I saw the Micro Mark ad on here and bought my printer from Office Depot before December.
Bought the white toner from US Cutter and it arrived within a week or so.
the paper that I use was the Bare Metal Foil paper that Hobby town sells, and the other paper that I bought was INCAL, the paper is smoother and decals apply well.
clear coat was future, and testors decal bonder. Tried a clear acrylic can and it ruined a decal. It was not the 2x clear nor the Krylon can. Arts and Crafts store sold this for posters and other frame works, so thought it was a good choice.
HP printer has some issues, I would print a good decal and go to do another print and specks of black ink would appear randomly on a part of the decal with graphics, or running past a graphic on the end... just enough to need a reprint.
HP from 2003 did a great job of self cleaning, but this new printer cleans, but not enough apparently to clean the next sheet print.
Overall a good ALPS replacement. yes I did get the overlap when trying a second print too when white was below a color graphic?
Steve |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:07 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if after the white was printed then you could shave off some of the paper with a paper cutter and then add the same thickness of a strip of styrene to one side of the tray and then print the color over the white if that would line things up? The strip of styrene would have to be removable and quickly held in place in the tray some how. This would have to be a very thin cut and a very thin spacer. |
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Brandon Miller
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 105
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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MarkJ wrote: | I wonder if after the white was printed then you could shave off some of the paper with a paper cutter and then add the same thickness of a strip of styrene to one side of the tray and then print the color over the white if that would line things up? The strip of styrene would have to be removable and quickly held in place in the tray some how. This would have to be a very thin cut and a very thin spacer. |
Or you could just play around with the offset setting of the artwork file until you get the right combi ation. |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Brandon Miller wrote: | MarkJ wrote: | I wonder if after the white was printed then you could shave off some of the paper with a paper cutter and then add the same thickness of a strip of styrene to one side of the tray and then print the color over the white if that would line things up? The strip of styrene would have to be removable and quickly held in place in the tray some how. This would have to be a very thin cut and a very thin spacer. |
Or you could just play around with the offset setting of the artwork file until you get the right combi ation. |
Oh yes, that would be a lot easier. Has anyone tried that yet. |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think Hitman51 was working that direction.... _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Hitman51
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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So just to give some insight. I cannot seem to find the happy medium on the offset.
In my opinion, you really need to double the white in order to get a good bright white. without it its similar to a milky white color. I have seen instances where the white doesnt necessarily line up corrrectly either. I have added about a 12px outline around the artwork and that seems to do the trick but really only works well on a black car.
there are two ways ive seen it go wonky. about a 12px shift the the right, and about a 8px shift to the bottom.
There is an anti-curl feature on the screen that does help reduce the amount of bend in the paper. basically you need to flatten out the paper so its nice and flat before placing it back in. |
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Charles Carmichael
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hitman51 wrote: | So just to give some insight. I cannot seem to find the happy medium on the offset.
In my opinion, you really need to double the white in order to get a good bright white. without it its similar to a milky white color. I have seen instances where the white doesnt necessarily line up corrrectly either. I have added about a 12px outline around the artwork and that seems to do the trick but really only works well on a black car.
there are two ways ive seen it go wonky. about a 12px shift the the right, and about a 8px shift to the bottom.
There is an anti-curl feature on the screen that does help reduce the amount of bend in the paper. basically you need to flatten out the paper so its nice and flat before placing it back in. |
So the misalignment with either double white or color over white isn't a consistent distance each time? |
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Brandon Miller
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 105
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Purchased my printer today for $166.21. Now to get the toner. |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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It will for sure cost more than the printer....we all need to share info as we learn this setup. This puts white printing within reach.... _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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DaveVan
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 Posts: 1578
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Dennis O wrote: | It will for sure cost more than the printer....we all need to share info as we learn this setup. This puts white printing within reach.... |
Agreed.......what has been shared so far is helpful. |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Yes, this discussion has been very, very helpful to me. Now if one of you, after you get it all figured out, would do a you tube video on the process from start to finish, that would be the ultimate in helping us all make our own white image decals and kiss the inkjet decals good bye. |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:09 am Post subject: |
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One thing I have done is started using the "printing shortcuts" that can be found under "printer properties". It allows you to create a printing profile and save it to be used again. It keeps you from having to enter the page setup parameters every time. I have one Called "White Toner Manual Feed Decal Paper". Whenever I want to do a pass I use that preset. The presets I'm using are Letter Size, Manual Feed, Medium Weight Paper, Both sides is NO, Print in Grayscale is set to Black only (which is really white only). _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Brandon Miller
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 105
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Dennis O wrote: | I am doing all cars from the 60's and 70's so there were no swooshes..LOL. I really think this printer and toner has the capability to change our landscape. I see people skilled in artwork selling their wares kinda like music. You order a digital download and print it yourself. We may be a generation or two away from that but it is adapt or die. Perhaps down the road you want to build a 54 Ford short tracker. You order the 3D scan and print the model on your 3D printer. Then order the decals and print them. If you think about it, it's not that outlandish. |
I have currently moved towards that aspect. I no longer sell decals but have provided artwork services to others. They pay me for the artwork file I create for them to print. Also all of my old artwork files are for sale. |
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Charles Carmichael
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I just got my HP M254DW printer set up over the weekend. I wanted to do a test print with decals for a white car first. When applying the decal, it folded over a bit (operator error) and once I got it straightened out the toner had come off in the spots where it folded. Also, when using a decal that wrapped around the front of the car the toner seemed to come off in spots where the paper curved around the car body. Maybe it's the decal paper I'm using (Bare Metal Foil Experts Choice 123 clear) or my printer settings. Have any of you with this printer experienced this?
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Hitman51
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 49
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:40 am Post subject: |
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its gotta be your paper. I had about 100 sheets of Bel Paper leftover from my ALPS, but I really only used them or Tango Papa. Never tried anybody elses. I know i would have that flaking problem on white decal paper or if i trimmed over printed areas. Try applying some decal film over the sheet with a brush and let dry for about an hour.
Here is one i wrapped up this week. All the white on the car is decal with no flaking issues.
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DaveVan
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 Posts: 1578
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of Bell decal paper........
I must have used thousands of sheets.....had one bad sheet.
Now that they are gone who's paper are you using??? Bell paper was great, IMHO, and at 75 cents a sheet, or less, a deal. |
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Brandon Miller
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 105
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: |
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DaveVan wrote: | Speaking of Bell decal paper........
I must have used thousands of sheets.....had one bad sheet.
Now that they are gone who's paper are you using??? Bell paper was great, IMHO, and at 75 cents a sheet, or less, a deal. |
I use Tango Papa's paper. |
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BVAUGHN
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 504
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Who carries the Tango Papa decal sheets?
Thanks
Bill |
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Charles Carmichael
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 19
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I've been using the Bare Metal Foil paper with my Alps. I tried Bel, at least I think it was Bel - came from decalpaper.com. I absolutely hated the stuff. It curled up on itself and would stretch and stick to the model. |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Brandon Miller
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 Posts: 105
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: |
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BVAUGHN wrote: | Who carries the Tango Papa decal sheets?
Thanks
Bill |
Tango Papa |
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mprmprmpr
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 296 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:33 am Post subject: |
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I have some extra Tango Papa blue backed laser paper I'd sell. I can't use it with my printer. PM me if anyone is interested.
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 880 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Micro Mark 15% off EVERYTHING only today. Might get a deal on a toner cartridge!!! _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I went ahead and got the printer at Office Depot yesterday. It was on sale till Friday for $219. $238 after tax. I went ahead and got the 2 year coverage for 50 bucks. Probably threw that money away but you never know. Now I just need to get the toner and some paper. They had to order the printer but they say it should be at the store today for pickup. I could have had it delivered to my house for free but felt safer picking it up at the store. |
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