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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:03 pm Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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Thanks to the discovery of the 40% off discount coupon that I can pull up on my phone and use at the neighborhood Hobby( it sure is nice to get a model home for less than $20 again) the recent discovery that testors competition Orange over a red oxide base will get me close to Ford poppy red and a beautiful set of Powerslide decals from Mike( 3 complete cars worth!) I am now finally ready to finish my 68 Bobby Isaac charger. The only color pictures I've ever seen of a K & K charger under the hood and in the interior are the Bonneville Daytona (that sounds weird don't it) and I would really love to know what's under the hood and in the interior of the 68. I'm pretty sure it has some black upholstery inside the interior like the upper door panels and the dash pad, but that's about it. I would also love for somebody to repost pictures of the 68 only twin Holly four barrel setup and air cleaner. Thank you, pictures of my many projects sooner rather than later. _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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Tom M. Board Moderator
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 606
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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There's two different 2X4 barrel setups, neither of them use a stockish Hemi manifold unfortunately. The inline setup has the carbs spaced further apart so a pair of Holleys with their oversize float bowls will fit bowl to bowl, probably even with the LeMans center pivot setups. The other uses a different top to the box plenum manifold and has the carbs staggered. If I recall correctly the early style big breather was used, just with modified base and cover to fit on the 2X4 setup.
The best photo of a '68 K&K car I'm aware of is the photo of the Daytona low-speed test car, which was cobbled up from a '68 if I recall. Link to hi-res image: https://i.wheelsage.org/pictures/d/dodge/charger_daytona_nascar_test_car/dodge_charger_daytona_nascar_test_car.jpeg
The seat was a very bright red at Daytona, close to the color "Charger Red/Bright Red". |
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Dennis O Board Moderator
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 882 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a smart phone there is an app that pops up on your phone for that magical 40% coupon. It's always there when you need it. _________________ Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....... |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:08 am Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colorsK&K 66 cha |
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You don't even need the app, just Google Hobby Lobby 40% off coupon , bring it to the register and have them scan it and what's a $36 model after tax in Texas (you got to pay for all that super enthusiastic police and totally corrupt politicians here) becomes a $19.50 model! But there's no Ollie's Discount here unfortunately. For those not in the know, Ollie's Discount is like in seven or eight states and has random round2 models for 7 or 8 bucks, as well as stuff like the Lindbergh Eliminator 8th scale dragster that I scored in Birmingham Alabama for $17! I'm leaning towards just painting everything Orange, orange always looks good with lots of black detail, it is just a model after all! _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Posts: 283
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Here is a link to the 68 K&K Charger, after it was painted blue and re-numbered 88, then donated to Nascar instead of the real #88!!!
http://www.aerowarriors.com/wci88.html
Interior details are the same as before.
Under the hood, too. It was a 2x2 car.
Here is a link to rare photos of the K&K at Talladega going 201.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=95831.25
I was disappointed to learn that they had to run two 4 barrels to get the 201 speed. Thought it was supposed to be a legal run...
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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Thanks for the awesome link, you can never have enough detail pictures of wing cars! But I'm kind of confused. I'm no expert at this but wasn't there a couple of banned cars that had the bodies illegally channeled in 68 that are referred to as the"2×2s" that were involved in the Daytona Testing? And if so, was this Chrysler's doing or a Harry Hyde deal? One of the old timers I met years ago at the Checkered Flag years ago told me that the Hyde bunch,
including master body man Robert Gee, would take delivery on a brand new Nichols car and cut it to pieces and there's been things on here recently discussing this. Educate us,Greg! _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Posts: 283
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Nichels built, under Chrysler direction, 4 "2x2" cars for the July 68 Firecracker race.
#22 Plymouth
#3 Dodge
#71 Dodge
#6 Dodge
The #71 68 2x2 Charger became the low speed test Daytona, still in the K&K colors, as posted above.
I'd like to see any vintage photos of the K&K guys cutting up Nichels cars and rebuilding them back in the day. They may have added or moved some bars around, but that is a tall order!
With all due respect to the guys that were there, without vintage photos, you have hearsay. |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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This isn't just from me, they were well known for tricking out the bodies for better Aero, not necessarily cutting up the chassis. There are other posts on this fourm discussing this,with pictures. The pictures that I've been looking at of the 68 car they have definitely messed around with the front fenders and the 1970 lowrider,I don't think there's a panel on that car that hasn't been touched. Not to mention the Bonneville Daytona. You don't have too go far for photographic proof,Greg. _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!"
Last edited by Bobby The Cabdriver on Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Posts: 283
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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The other two 2x2 Chargers look like the K&K, so I'd say they came out of Nichels like that.
The K&K at Bonneville is the same car used for the 201.
It has a drooped front clip. So does the #88 and the #6 that won the Southern 500. And there is a pic of a #22 with the drooped front.
Again, Nichels stuff.
But I know Mr. Gee did work the K&K cars over in other areas.
Subtle stuff, where they could get by.
The #71 lowrider is like the Petty short track car they built - tricked up to get weight to the back. |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: K&K |
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Do you or anybody else have pictures of 68 to 70 cars being delivered from Nichols to any of the customer shops? As in, before Cotton, Harry, Ray, the Petty's or anybody else did their thing to them? Were the regular cars delivered without Body Mods? And the two by two cars got banned didn't they? _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Posts: 283
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: K&K |
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Bobby The Cabdriver wrote: | Do you or anybody else have pictures of 68 to 70 cars being delivered from Nichols to any of the customer shops? As in, before Cotton, Harry, Ray, the Petty's or anybody else did their thing to them? Were the regular cars delivered without Body Mods? And the two by two cars got banned didn't they? |
Yes.
No.
Yes. |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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So the cars were built with the noses dropped, wheel flares or wheel wells opened, trunk lids raised or lowered, drip rails removed around the windows, interesting when you look at pictures when so many of the cars look different from one another. I don't doubt you, but did the teams have a say in the body work that was done? Was Harry Hyde the only guy doing additional body work to the cars? And who was responsible for the Petty vinyl top Roadrunner?( Maybe we should start referring to this car as the black and blue banana) This is very interesting but all I really wanted to know was what colors to paint my 68 K&K charger..... hey bud, how about some pictures? I've never seen any pictures of finished cars leaving Nichols after 1967. _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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Firefly
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 813 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's Nichels. N-I-C-H-E-L-S.
Not trying to be a jerk, but I couldn't help it... _________________ Bill Jobson is my real name. |
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Posts: 283
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Firefly wrote: | It's Nichels. N-I-C-H-E-L-S.
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That's what the jacket says on the back that I got from Robert Gee, too!! |
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Tom M. Board Moderator
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 606
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Drip rails weren't removed. Hammered flat and puttied as much as they could get away with, but not removed. Not for cars that had to go through a NASCAR inspection. You can see the drip rails on the Petty black roof car and on the Rossi Dodges.
Everyone did their own massaging, to some degree. The superspeedway nose on the Petty Roadrunner was a work of art but the basic channeling, rocker panel work, etc. that would need to be done prior to the cage being installed had to be done at Nichels for cars that were braced and caged there. It should be noted that teams who had a separate relationship with Mopar prior to Nichels becoming the Mopar chassis and parts distributor, such as Cotton Owens and the Pettys, appear to have continued to operate under a grandfathered agreement where they did more of their own fabrication and retained ownership of their equipment after the season through the end of '64. Later, for the Pettys. |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:40 pm Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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I actually knew that. I use a talk and text and frequently have to come back and edit it. It's kind of slipped right by me. I put a lot of thought into these posts, and I'm pretty dicks lexic so X some words things maybe wrong backwards occasionally.and speelling as well badly. Did s sometimes. _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:50 pm Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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Seriously now, the cars were not sold or given to the teams? How did that work and who were the beneficiaries, is this why so many teams rebodied their cars year after year? And out of the factory supported teams, who was allowed to keep anything? And what happened after 1970 when the Petty's took over the whole program? This is getting good! Tell us more! _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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Aero426
Joined: 17 May 2018 Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Re: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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Bobby The Cabdriver wrote: | Seriously now, the cars were not sold or given to the teams? How did that work and who were the beneficiaries, is this why so many teams rebodied their cars year after year? And out of the factory supported teams, who was allowed to keep anything? And what happened after 1970 when the Petty's took over the whole program? This is getting good! Tell us more! |
If you were a contracted team for Chrysler, there was a set dollar amount subsidy you were budgeted for based on the number of supported races. That amount could be broken up into a combination of car(s), parts, or cash depending on what was negotiated. In general, the total dollar amount was smaller than you would think.
If you were a contracted team (other than Petty or K & K), you might get one complete new car per season. That car was yours to keep. You would have the option of updating your year old car, or selling it. As all contracted teams received the updated design cars for 1968, there would be little reason not to carry on for 1969 with the year old car as a spare.
Once Chrysler cut back for 1971, K & K received some help to build their own cars as Hyde would not buy from PE. There was probably some limited help sent to others (Owens) as well to aid in the transition. |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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Wow. So there really wasn't that much of a jump from an independent to a factory team, at least not on the Mopar side. Thank you that sheds a lot of light on things that people were led to believe about having Factory support. I think most people,myself included,had this picture in their mind about 18 wheelers full of cars and parts and huge checks showing up at the factory team shops. _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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Aero426
Joined: 17 May 2018 Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:52 am Post subject: Re: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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Bobby The Cabdriver wrote: | Wow. So there really wasn't that much of a jump from an independent to a factory team, at least not on the Mopar side. Thank you that sheds a lot of light on things that people were led to believe about having Factory support. I think most people,myself included,had this picture in their mind about 18 wheelers full of cars and parts and huge checks showing up at the factory team shops. |
What the factory teams got with that seed money was a big leg up on everyone else. The independents had to pay for everything COD. They did not have new cars or the latest updates. They did not have new engines. They did not have the safety net of Nord Krauskopf's wallet to cover any shortfall to win a championship.
With factory help, Mario Rossi or Owens could run just the 16 contracted big money races in 1970 and make a living doing it. An independent had to run all the races in a year or two old car to make a living. |
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Posts: 283
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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There is documentation on the aerowarriors.com site to support the aero426 statements.
That site has a TON of info an photos.
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john843
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 607 Location: S.C. Lowcountry
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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That site has a TON of info an photos.
[/quote]
Greg is absolutely right. It does, as does dodgechargers.com but the problem for me is I'll go into one of them to check something and be there 3 hrs.!
Seriously though, if you love the aero cars and that general era of racing there's
no better place to get the right info, often from the guys who actually have the cars in front of them.
John |
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Bobby The Cabdriver
Joined: 19 Oct 2018 Posts: 388 Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...
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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:45 am Post subject: K&K 68 Charger chassis and interior colors |
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I love both sites and yes you're right you go in there to check one thing end up spending 3 hours, especially for me because I love the streetcars, and the drag cars too. I always knew there was different levels of factory support, obviously, but really thought it was a much sweeter deal. Mopar and Ford really got their money's worth didn't they? We're still talking about it all these years later! _________________ "And on the 8th day God created the Hemi!" |
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