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69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump?

 
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
Posts: 76
Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

I Now understand what people mean when they say the polar lights Talladega and Cyclone kits are flawed. First off the front track is too narrow and those upper control arms look like lumps. The Boss 429 valve covers hit the roll bar tubing Big Time. I wasn't planning on getting into a lot of work on this kit, with all the flash I had to remove and the massive amount of body work needed. But neither kit oil pan seem to fit, and being since the old library is gone and the links to kit building tips either aren't there or don't cover this topic, what system of oiling was run on the 69 Boss 429? If it matters, and it might, I'm building the Leeroy Yarbrough Junior Johnson cyclone using an older set of decals and a current release Bobby Allison Cyclone kit. And yeah, it's molded in dark red! What I hoped for a nice easy out of the box build is anything but! Help! Knowing the innovator Junior Johnson was, does anybody had detail pictures of this exact car? If it's a dry-sump, any good pictures of the oil tank? Any interior door panel pictures? And because I have an older polar lights decal sheet I can't do a black hood using this sheet, did they run a white Hood car without the side windows anywhere?
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Last edited by Bobby The Cabdriver on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tom M.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the NASCAR Boss 429 engines were dry sump. The 427 engines were all wet sump in NASCAR, as far as I know.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
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Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:13 pm    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

Okay Tom, who's got the pictures? And I'm sure you've built this kit before, what did you do to make it all fit together? I've got the body work and the tubular upper control arms covered, but I'm just a Mopar guy, remember?
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
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Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

I found some great pictures on hotrod.com under the heading of "69 Torino Talladega Aero Warrior"...or something like that... wow, these things got a lot going on that front suspension....
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Barry



Joined: 23 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Boss 429 oil dry sumps Reply with quote

Hi, Bobby. If you are having trouble building the Polar Lights Cyclone, may I suggest you look just above your posting for Matt McNally's guide to building the Polar Lights Ford. Just click on the link, and follow along as he does a step by step build on how to fix some of the problems of using the Boss 429 engine, and corrections for the exhaust pipes, exhaust dumps, roll bars,etc. This kit can be a bit of a pain, but I used his method when I did the Petty car, and everything worked out fine. Just take your time. Hope this helps, and good luck with the build.

Barry Kennedy
Ontario, Canada
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
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Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

Yeah I did try Matt's link and like somebody else before me, it forward me somewhere else and that site said it was not available. In the hot rod story that I found it says in the story that dr. Craft says the car was built in 1970. The biggest thing that I see in that story is that the center of the crossmember has been cut out. Is this correct for a 1969 Holman & Moody chassis? And the headers on this car in the magazine, which is a documented Junior Johnson car, are insane! I don't believe I've ever seen anything like this other than 1964 race Hemi headers with individual tubes running down past the oil pan to a collector by the transmission crossmember. All I wanted was a nice simple out of the box build! Too late! These polar light kits are unbelievably flawed and I would hate to be an inexperienced modeler who's used to putting together monogram NASCAR kits trying to get one of these things to look right. I've already expressed my absolute hatred of the Polar lights Dodge Charger and the MPC 16th scale lump it's based on elsewhere here on this forum so let's not go there. I have a lot of time invested in this cyclone already, might as well go all the way!
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Henryjint



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: NY State's Hudson Valley

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby - did you try going here?...http://public.fotki.com/lannyhaas/how-tos/polar_lights_build_up/

Hope this helps.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

A nice build to be sure, but too out of the box for me.
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Bill J



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Hot Rod article about the 69 Junior Johnson car does show the correct dry sump oil pan and all of the 68 and on Torinos and Cyclones used headers that looked like that. Space was limited and the car had to ride low. This style was used on the 427 FE, 396 FE and the Boss 429. The 429 had a different head end where it bolted to the engine.

Unfortunately, no one ever kitted any correct headers or dry sump pans for the Fords. Never saw a model hemi dry sump pan either, maybe in the 1/16 kits.
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Tom M.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The center section of the crossmember was replaced by a piece that bolted in. I think the later fabricated snouts had that part of the crossmember welded in, there were about three different versions of that part. The entire Galaxie snout was narrowed 2" when repurposed for Fairlane/Torino use.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
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Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:35 am    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

Thank you.You got me going in the right direction now, with the hot rod pictures and this info.I could still use some pictures of the oil tank and cooler. A long time ago, I spend some time studying the petty race Hemi in the lobby at Charlotte Motor Speedway, but I'm drawing a blank on the oil pan. I don't have a a dry-sump Mopar project going yet but how about some pictures of a Hemi dry sump pan, being since it was brought up. I really can't remember seeing pictures of a dry-sump NASCAR Hemi pan anywhere.
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

426 hemi dry sump pan
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
Posts: 76
Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

You rule!
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you like those headers on the JJ/Lee Roy car, a similar set was in the AMT '70/'71 Cobra kit. Not easy or cheap to acquire. You might try scratchbuilding them. (something to pull you further down this rabbit hole) Very Happy

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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
Posts: 76
Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

Hey Dave Van! Does this tooling still exist? These old MPC and AMT kits with the simplified chassis and metal axles have more than a simple charm. They still have some of the most accurate body shapes, since most of them are based off of manufacturer approved promos and it's gotten to the point where I'm scared to buy any new Revell models because even with all the detail, they've got some real problems in simple things like Hood lines and wheel wells. I love these reissue kits and I could always kitbash something more accurate together on the chassis and engine side. The Revell Hemi Cuda is a huge disappointment to me. How is the Revell 70 Torino? And would round 2 be willing to do a run of the AMT 70 Torino if the tooling exists? I'm thinking David Pearson/ Holman Moody and Donnie Allison/ Hoss Ellington. Speaking of rare but somewhat less expensive, I think something could be done with the headers in the Johan Pro Stock Maverick/Comet and Cuda. They do pop up on eBay from time to time and they are very nice kits. In fact the Ford twins have both Cammer AND Boss engine options. I wish I still had mine.
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darksidefan2



Joined: 10 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those '70 Cobra headers look something like the ones in the AMT '66 Galaxie kit although those have a collector and not 4 separate tubes all the way.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: 69 Boss 429 Talladega oil pan wet or dry sump? Reply with quote

The headers in the Johan Pro Stock cars have very long primary tubes that are molded in pairs and with patience and a little Heat I'm sure we could get there. I'm actually bidding on 2 glue bomb Sox & Martin cuda's on flea pay right now. I'll keep you guys posted.
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