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Pearson Mercs mid 70's Help me out here boys and girls

 
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AdamtheWayne



Joined: 09 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:26 pm    Post subject: Pearson Mercs mid 70's Help me out here boys and girls Reply with quote

So I saw the ad below for the '73 Merc and of course it got me thinking. (SOMEbody STOP me!) and I've always wanted to do a couple of the Silver Foxes mid 70's rides.
With the 75 and 72 fastback Torinos and a Mercury Cougar nose, I can do this AND it would be a candidate for casting/printing because I want more than one. SO let's start a little discussion (Yes I'm going to ask for photos) on how best to cobble up a 1973 Montego and a 1976 (Daytona winner?) Your photos and advice are all welcome.

This is not something that will be done quick but, most likely with the right parts I can get it in before Christmas.
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bangor boy



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looked like a fairly easy transplant when I picked up these kits in the summer. But the Torino hood has a raised area in the center that is wider than that on the Cougar.

To match the look of the 73 Montego, the Cougar hood contours are needed to properly merge into the Cougar grille area. But that hood is narrower in width than the Torino hood by roughly 3/8 of an inch.

So, does that mean chopping the entire front end, before the windshield, off the Torino and merging the Cougar front end to the Torino body to get a good fit for the hood? Then the Mercury grille would be a natural fit.

Or would it be better to use sheet plastic to widen the Cougar hood and just lopping off the front end area before the wheel wells to create accommodation for the Mercury grille?

And then there's issues with Torino having recessed rocker panels while the Montego has raised rocker panels.

I hope I've explained all that clearly. Here's the kits I'm trying to use and the Pearson Montego I'd like to create:





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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK......keep in mind this was built in 1974 before many things we have today were invented. I took the Cougar kit from MPC, same as shown above, and a JoHan 1972 Gran Torino kit. It is a little primitive by todays standards but for its time not bad. With more work a decent Montego can be made. The Cougar might be done with the Cougar parts and the Starsky & Hutch notchback Torino body.......but getting that Cougar 100% correct will be a LOT of work!
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back about 1984 (I remember because it was the year of 200) I tried my very first kit bash. Unfortunately I'd used the same, Johan and a Cat. Had one devil of a time filling the quarter panel valleys and couldn't get the front fenders to stay on due to lack of technique and talent. Ready to give it a new shot but SOMEBODY bought the Cat kit that was on my watch list. I won't mention any names... but I bet Gerald knows who I'm talking about! Wink
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gks1964



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that Gerald guy wanted to make sure you had the needed kits as a starting point!! When I get it, it's on it's way to you!! I need some of these bodies myself and I'm sure that you can do it Very Happy
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gks1964 wrote:
Yeah that Gerald guy wanted to make sure you had the needed kits as a starting point!! When I get it, it's on it's way to you!! I need some of these bodies myself and I'm sure that you can do it Very Happy
Awww Embarassed I'm quite certain your faith in me may be a little overblown but, I'll do my best. Very Happy
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking at the Johan '73 Torino right now in profile against the one pictured above. I'll post some pics for discussion later today but, it looks like beyond the quarters, it's fairly simple conversion to a Montego. The front clip, hood and grille area, and probably the tail light area.
I don't like the thought of destroying a Johan but I'm thinking I can use the rocker trim to build up those skirts. Straighten the nose up a bit, fill the quarters and change the tail panel. Advice? Suggestions?
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bangor boy wrote:
It looked like a fairly easy transplant when I picked up these kits in the summer. But the Torino hood has a raised area in the center that is wider than that on the Cougar.

To match the look of the 73 Montego, the Cougar hood contours are needed to properly merge into the Cougar grille area. But that hood is narrower in width than the Torino hood by roughly 3/8 of an inch.

So, does that mean chopping the entire front end, before the windshield, off the Torino and merging the Cougar front end to the Torino body to get a good fit for the hood? Then the Mercury grille would be a natural fit.

Or would it be better to use sheet plastic to widen the Cougar hood and just lopping off the front end area before the wheel wells to create accommodation for the Mercury grille?

And then there's issues with Torino having recessed rocker panels while the Montego has raised rocker panels.

I hope I've explained all that clearly. Here's the kits I'm trying to use and the Pearson Montego I'd like to create:





Definitely widen the hood after first moving the merc clip to the Torino. Narrowing the area to fit the hood could be more problematic than you want. Without having one in hand, I can't say if the clips on both kits are the same width to begin with so there might be some adjustment there anyway. I'm sure it's no more than .5mm either way though. If I use my Johan, the rocker trim will help building the rockers up for the Merc version but, it would be just as simple to add some (0.30?) sheet plastic to build up that area.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I just spotted this one!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-JO-HAN-JOHAN-1972-72-FORD-TORINO-OVAL-TRACK-RACER-MODEL-MADE-IN-THE-USA/254729839702?hash=item3b4f14e456:g:7acAAOSw-3NfbmHL

Just imagine! Original Johan air! Laughing
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question and announcement... sort of.

WHAT in the world are those three dots on the QP?

Thanks to the generosity of another member here, the 1973 Montego project will move forward. GKS 1964 and I will be working together to get these Monty go's going. (Although he may not know it yet tee-hee)

I'm doing a deep dive to find photos of all four corners, as usual if I can't find NASCAR pics I'll go with stock and make mods as necessary.

I have the proper Torino on hand but, looking to sweep in a body only so I can save the Johan. Got a couple on my radar now.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHAT in the world are those three dots on the QP?

Not sure what you are asking???

I may have some MPC 72 Torino bodies if needed. They are the EXACT same size as the JoHan/AMT.....hoods swap as do bumpers grille. They do not have all the showroom trim too.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are three dots under the P-U on the quarter panel of the Pearson Merc shown above. Let me know if you've got a body and what you need for it in a P.M. Thanks Dave!

EDIT: Never mind the dots! After a little googling (Don't judge me!) I see those are the bottoms of the slots.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdamtheWayne wrote:
There are three dots under the P-U on the quarter panel of the Pearson Merc shown above. Let me know if you've got a body and what you need for it in a P.M. Thanks Dave!

EDIT: Never mind the dots! After a little googling (Don't judge me!) I see those are the bottoms of the slots.

We called those 'gills' back in the day!!!
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I been havin brain farts all day long! I'm thinking about going to my corner for a couple hours! Laughing
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The kit you show of the Cougar is wrong for creating a 72-73 Montego. The looks is similar but they are different size cars. Like the difference between a Torino and a Mustang.
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buford Wilburn mastered both a 73 Montego fastback and a 75 Cougar. Bandit Resins had the master of the Montego and the later Cougar at one time.

The hood on the Montego is a GT hood with twin scoops, hard to see on most pictures.


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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tank you for that info on the hood, that will be most helpful. As for the needed adjustments, no worries, I got it. Wink
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few more pics. Hope they're helpful. The later Montego





The 73 Montego GT hood on the street car

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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know... at first I didn't care for it but, that hood is really growing on me! Thanks again Bill, excellent reference!
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out SMH has a '76 model. Anyone know if they're still making it?
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill J wrote:
A few more pics. Hope they're helpful. The later Montego
The 73 Montego GT hood on the street car


I'll trade my entire model car collection for the street Montego!!!!! I have looked for a 1/1 version for 40 years!!!
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, I saw a nice one a few years ago in rural Oklahoma. Looked like new. It was red and parked in the driveway of a farmhouse. I thought about stopping and asking if they'd sell it.
I also saw a real nice 67 GT 500 Shelby at another farm. There is a guy in a little town west of Enid, OK that has a huge building full of classic drag cars and some '60's and '70's NASCARS. He lets people see them by appointment.

Dave here was one for sale that went for 30K
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/af18/auburn-fall/lots/r0221-1973-mercury-montego-gt/695116


Last edited by Bill J on Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Firefly



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few comments based on my own builds and observations ...

As BillJ mentioned, the MPC Cougar is not a correct donor for anything —unless maybe headlight frames or grille pieces. That early '70s Cougar was a Mustang variant.

The '74-'76 Merc notchback (Montego and Cougar) shared little with the '73 fastback. Maybe the windshield and door panels. So I would see it as a separate project from the '73. Even the front end is more blunt and angular. I'd start with one of the recent Revell Torinos.

Study the difference between the '74-'76 Montego and Cougar.
Cougar: Round headlamp frames, corner lamps at front fender edge. Opera window openings in B-pillar. Montego: Square headlamp covers/corner lamps inside fender, no opera window.

As with any NASCAR conversion, note fender flaring and bumper sectioning. These areas were not exactly stock...


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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still looking for an answer on SMH, are they still making one? I can't find them other than ebay but, if they're still making them I don't need to.
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Firefly



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdamtheWayne wrote:
Turns out SMH has a '76 model. Anyone know if they're still making it?


Don't bother. It was based on the small '72-'73 Cougar. I bought one a while back, and used it for my '76 'finish line' edition you probably have seen. I had to quarter it like a roasted chicken and space it out to get it to proper scale...had to reshape all the contours...at least I did not have to deal with the front since I fabbed all the smashed parts from aluminum.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
AdamtheWayne wrote:
Turns out SMH has a '76 model. Anyone know if they're still making it?


Don't bother. It was based on the small '72-'73 Cougar. I bought one a while back, and used it for my '76 'finish line' edition you probably have seen. I had to quarter it like a roasted chicken and space it out to get it to proper scale...had to reshape all the contours...at least I did not have to deal with the front since I fabbed all the smashed parts from aluminum.
Thank you. I had heard that before which is why I never bought one.
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly is totally correct. The best way to replicate a 76 Montego/Cougar is to start with the Revell Torino, like the Starsky and Hutch kit. It would be a bit of work but the basics are a match.

The center grille on the boxy roof 76 Montego is wider than the earlier 73 Montego and as Firefly noted, the headlight and side grilles are different as well.

I would recommend sending an email to Kenny at Bandit Resins and ask if he still has the masters for these two cars before I tried to create them again.
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gks1964



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam, I don't want to step on your post but here goes! Does anyone have any overhead pix of the 76 Montego?
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afx



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote




https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/david-pearson-in-his-purolator-mercury-montego-pearson-ran-574-races-picture-id92389941?s=2048x2048
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright fellers. You've successfully talked me out of this project.
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gks1964



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's to bad! Sorry to hear that! Don't think that Bandit is going re-release that body.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gks1964 wrote:
That's to bad! Sorry to hear that! Don't think that Bandit is going re-release that body.
Nothing showing on his site. I'm cool with it, there's other things I can be doing. Cheers all!
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Firefly



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gks1964 wrote:
Adam, I don't want to step on your post but here goes! Does anyone have any overhead pix of the 76 Montego?


Best I ever could find. Top pic is actually a Cougar:




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gks1964



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdamtheWayne wrote:
Alright fellers. You've successfully talked me out of this project.


Certainly not the intent to talk you out of the project. Trying to help make it easier and more accurate.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill J wrote:
AdamtheWayne wrote:
Alright fellers. You've successfully talked me out of this project.


Certainly not the intent to talk you out of the project. Trying to help make it easier and more accurate.
HA! You guys are too easy. You can't scare me off a project by telling me how scary it is! Do you not know me by now? Laughing I'm currently looking over some reference material and considering a plan of attack. As it is right now, I don't think I'll need anything from The Cat kit beyond the front bumper and grille setup. And that will just be to build a proper face on.
The hood shouldn't be too much issue either.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got to admit... THIS one was a bit of a shocker...


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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I have some reference points. Don't put too much stock in the wheel wells or mismatched wheel base. Pretty sure the two cars were the same base and this is just to give me an idea how far off the concept is to reality. Not too bad... I guess. The red lines are of course distance/length markers, the blues are where it needs built up and the yellow, gotta go!
Slabbing out the side where that belt line is should be no challenge, and really, neither should the scallop once I get to tearing on it. The main issue will be the character line along the base of the roof, traversing from the c pillar to the tail end. The plastic is going to need backup in that area and likely in the scallop as well.
I did a "yardstick" on the windows and the Torino seemed a hair higher in the C pillar, a bit lower in the A.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up front is going to be a different story!


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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So while watching the race (What a finish right?!) I'm comparing pictures. Aside from the roof, deck lid and the line along the top of the fender/door, this car shares NOTHING with a Torino! Okay, maybe the frame and such but, now that I've put in the initial run time, the Torino body will need the entire side and front re-skinned. Fortunately, the front end has a lot of square-ish details, and the sides are gently rolled and neither the sides of the Torino nor the fenders are wide enough but the character lines of the Montego work in our favor and I've already decided if the NASCAR version works out I'm doing a street!



Note the crease along the top of the quarter panel. The Torino has large, deep scallops, one each side that need to go away but we need to add that line. We'll also need to change the fenders and doors making the sill slightly deeper as well as the front fenders. This is going to be fun. Smile
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Firefly



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note how much wider the front of the Mercury is sculpted at the upper surfaces. Check out the difference in width of the tops of the fenders on either side of the hood.

On your MPC Torino comparo, you've got the Merc scaled a bit short - I'm noticing the front hubs aren't aligning. If you scaled up to align, the front edge of the front fenders should align pretty closely. The Merc's '73 bumper would then protrude yet further out.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the fender tops on the Torino are angled tighter and aren't nearly as wide as the Merc. Again, the comparison pic is just a ballpark guideline..

I did fix it though.



But I'm for sure going to have to scratch build the nose, there's just no other way to get it right, that and the hood. I'll have to slab out the sides first though.
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Firefly



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. Just don't quit in the middle of the project, or we'll be hunting for decals for this:

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