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Richard Petty transitions away from the Hemi '71 to '75

 
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
Posts: 388
Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:40 am    Post subject: Richard Petty transitions away from the Hemi '71 to '75 Reply with quote

In the middle of 1970, NASCAR made some rule changes in an attempt to slow down the front runners and to make a little less expensive for the little guy. They eliminated the side window glass and introduced the restrictor plate. Not too long after this, the factories began to pull out and the muscle car era began to come to an end. NASCAR continued it's used of the restrictor plate, mostly on the Chrysler Hemi and Ford Boss 429 engines, now to bring Chevrolet back into the fold and as the calendar ticked into 1973 and '74, to force teams into using small block power. Bud Moore's groundbreaking, Cleveland powered Torinos being the first example. And here is my question, what was the timeline of Richard Petty transitioning from Hemi to RB(max)Wedge to LA (340) small block. I am aware, and previously noted, that Petty and most of the Mopar teams were forced into using the 1962 to 1964 Max Wedge style cylinder heads and blocks whose uncompetitiveness against the Pontiacs and Fords are what bought about the 426 Hemi in 1964. The much bigger ports in the Max wedge heads and intakes were not enough to make the RB big block competitive in '62and '63.Somewhat ironic don't you think? So again, when did Petty first use the wedge and then the 340 based small block? And how often did he switch back to the restrictor-plate Hemi? Sorry, Chevy guys, it's true.NASCAR needed to slow the Mopars and Fords down so your fabulous "rat motor" big block could be competitive. See comment below.
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Last edited by Bobby The Cabdriver on Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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George Andrews



Joined: 30 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NASCAR rule eliminating side window glass was aimed more towards easing wreck clean-up, with the added safety advantage of allowing builders to push the roll cage door bars out for added side - impact room.
Also, as with most rules changes NASCAR has mandated, it's The Little Guys who suffered most, as the Independents often couldn't afford the new parts & pieces, AND also lost their sources of good used HEMI / Shotgun parts too. The Grand National West Series continued to use the older, non - restrictor - plate rules for several more seasons for just this reason. The GNW Series did, however, mandate the use of mufflers ( special - built by GNW driver John Soares ) as an answer to many complaints from people who bought new homes near a race track, then were SHOCKED to find RACING happening there !!! Shocked
Also worth mentioning that when Junior Johnson and Smokey Yunick arrived at the 1963 Daytona Speedweeks with their new Chevrolet Mystery Motor - equipped Impalas, they quickly set new records !!!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Richard Petty transitions away from the Hemi '72 to '75 Reply with quote

I have to respectfully disagree on two statements that you have made. First off, history, both recorded and in print, point at the side windows were removed to lower speeds. Secondly, there was an attempt not just to lower speed but to increase engine reliability to benefit the independents, just like the situation a few years ago with restrictor plates being mandated by NASCAR to benefit the Toyota teams who could not have the engine reliability of the competition at the power levels needed to be competitive. Junior Johnson would have won every race he entered in 1963, before the debut of the Hemi at the 64 Daytona 500, if the "mystery motor" had the reliability needed to seal the deal. It did not. Even Smokey could not get it to stay in one piece. So why not restrict the competition in the name of parody, I mean parity. So anyhow, my question again is about the history of P.E. going from Hemi to Wedge to small block. We've established the why. And setting speed records don't win races or championships, but when you can accomplish all three, well.....
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:36 pm    Post subject: Richard Petty transitions away from the Hemi '72 to '75 Reply with quote

Okay, it's been brought to my attention that I might have hurt some Chevrolet fans feelings, just trying to have a little fun, but there is truth in what I have said. I guess I need to remember to add an LOL sometimes. But I am serious about this topic as I prepare to build a MPC Petty 72 Roadrunner. I am aware that in some point in 1972, the Petty's used Max Wedge Style RB motor due to the rule changes and possibly as a challenge after Maurice Petty's famous statement of restrictor plates "rob an engine builder of his ingenuity" or something like that.... I've only seen a few pictures of a Petty RB motor, and I think this is a pretty interesting subject.
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Last edited by Bobby The Cabdriver on Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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odcics2



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1971 Firecracker 400 was the first use of wedge engines that year.

Petty won the 73 Daytona 500 in a hemi.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:44 am    Post subject: Richard Petty transitions away from the Hemi '72 to '75 Reply with quote

I would just like to say that even though I am new at posting on this forum, I remember very clearly not too long ago when this forum was very animated and topics regularly stretched out for two or three pages. If it seems like I'm on here a lot posting, it is not because I'm seeking attention, it's because I love this forum and the information that is shared among its members. I have made a promise to stay away from negativity and I will keep that promise. I don't think it's too much to ask of others as well . That being said, I had no idea that the Petty's used a Wedge engine as early as the July 71 Firecracker 400. I would love some history and if possible some pictures to assist me in my model building as well as for the sake of knowledge. While online searching, I've come to discover that David Pearson ran a number 17 Plymouth in that same race and I would love some pictures of that too. I remember this forum well as an encyclopedia of NASCAR history and I'm doing what I can to try to restore that. If anybody wishes to read less of my comments,questions and suggestions, please PM me. I am not here seeking attention, only knowledge and if I can share some, I am all too happy to do it. And hopefully we can share a smile or two along the way.
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

George Andrews wrote:
The NASCAR rule eliminating side window glass was aimed more towards easing wreck clean-up, with the added safety advantage of allowing builders to push the roll cage door bars out for added side - impact room.
Also, as with most rules changes NASCAR has mandated, it's The Little Guys who suffered most, as the Independents often couldn't afford the new parts & pieces, AND also lost their sources of good used HEMI / Shotgun parts too. The Grand National West Series continued to use the older, non - restrictor - plate rules for several more seasons for just this reason. The GNW Series did, however, mandate the use of mufflers ( special - built by GNW driver John Soares ) as an answer to many complaints from people who bought new homes near a race track, then were SHOCKED to find RACING happening there !!! Shocked
Also worth mentioning that when Junior Johnson and Smokey Yunick arrived at the 1963 Daytona Speedweeks with their new Chevrolet Mystery Motor - equipped Impalas, they quickly set new records !!!


Side glass was used many years WITH the driver side bars "out".
The door is split in two: outer skin and inner metal to hold the glass stuff.
Bars are between them.
Some cars, both GN and USAC had the pass side bars out and used side glass, splitting the door in two.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petty used the HEMI and max wedge all the way through the 1973 season. The big races were run using the HEMI, the rest were wedge races. The wedge engines were forced to use a 390cfm carb, that essentially choked the engine. In 1974 the 355 cubic inch rule was in place. Petty may have used the wedge on the speedways that year but my memory is foggy.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1973 was also the first year Petty used braided lines. He used them on the sump lines and rear end lines for the most part and went full dress the following year.
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gks1964



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdamtheWayne wrote:
1973 was also the first year Petty used braided lines. He used them on the sump lines and rear end lines for the most part and went full dress the following year.


I often wondered when braided lines were first used!
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gks1964 wrote:
AdamtheWayne wrote:
1973 was also the first year Petty used braided lines. He used them on the sump lines and rear end lines for the most part and went full dress the following year.


I often wondered when braided lines were first used!
Well that's when Petty started using them. Pretty sure the Wood brothers were a year or so ahead. I don't think Petty started it and if he did? Keep it under your hat! He's got enough in the record books. Wink
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please see the link -

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,67613.50.html

Photos of a 1971 Petty Plymouth with braided lines to the dry sump.

Note - DC-93 ran a dry sump in 1969 with braided lines, when it was still a Charger 500.
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AdamtheWayne



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

odcics2 wrote:
Please see the link -

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,67613.50.html

Photos of a 1971 Petty Plymouth with braided lines to the dry sump.

Note - DC-93 ran a dry sump in 1969 with braided lines, when it was still a Charger 500.
Nice catch! I was told (at the museum now that I think about it) they started in '73. Thank you for the new information.
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdamtheWayne wrote:
odcics2 wrote:
Please see the link -

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,67613.50.html

Photos of a 1971 Petty Plymouth with braided lines to the dry sump.

Note - DC-93 ran a dry sump in 1969 with braided lines, when it was still a Charger 500.
Nice catch! I was told (at the museum now that I think about it) they started in '73. Thank you for the new information.


No problem. It helps when you own a Nichels car or two. Smile
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olyexpress



Joined: 09 May 2021
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the wedge heads on the converted HEMI blocks (yes, the short block was all HEMI with the deck plate modified to accept the wedge head bolt pattern) came from the motor home version of the 440. These heads have more casting material and a much improved coolant flow than what the Max Wedge and 906 heads have. Therefore the motorhome head had a good porting potential and was beneficial for higher compressions, due to its better cooling capacity.

I was able to buy on of these engines, which McGriff ran at Le Mans in 1976.
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