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Anyone see this from Micro Mark??? White printer????

 
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:59 am    Post subject: Anyone see this from Micro Mark??? White printer???? Reply with quote

https://www.micromark.com/Ultimate-Decal-Makers-Super-Value-Package-254dw?utm_campaign=19WS094&contact_eid=55c746a8-997a-452d-b9bd-c69e5319fecf&utm_medium=Email&_bta_tid=29160726165476384071502590488484346106324528475318488230599034963910406656567865724965444598270860590342&utm_source=Marketing
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A number of members use A white laser but do not think it's that one. My old laser has died and my screen printer is closing so I need to do something....would love to hear from a real user of the MM unit.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this works, it's fairly affordable and will likely work well with Windows 10. Assuming the printer is not modified in any way, Amazon is selling it for $219. The toner costs more than the printer. Amazon is also selling the toner for $234. That is $453 to print white only. The additional color carts are NOT cheap. The toner people are selling the bundle cheaper than micromark.
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halfbreed999



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be nice to have. But I have no experience with making decals. Someone once told me I would need a design program like coral draw I guess or something like that. As for computer savvy its not me. I have just enough understanding to get around online. So looks like I will just keep decals makers happy buying from them.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The input data is the most important part. I use CorelDraw 15.....and since CorelDraw03. I am 100% self taught so anyone can do it but the learning curve is tough. I learn everyday for over 20 years now. I was AI before CDR.
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mprmprmpr



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is similar to the way I first started laser printing decals. A laser printer modified to print white. In this case most likely the white toner replaces the black toner so the printer itself is probably not modified. It sounds like it will work well but, there a few things they aren't mentioning. First, since the white toner replaces the black toner and the printer is a four toner printer, that means the white has to be printed separately. You cannot print white and the color in one pass and you definitely can't print white under the color at the same time. You have to remember, the white has to be under the whole graphic, not just the white portions of it. So, you have to either print the white on a separate sheet and use it as an underlay to be applied on the model first. Or you have to print the white then put the black toner back in the printer and run the paper through again and print the color over the white. But it's nearly impossible to get the color to register correctly over the white. This will leave white shadows around part of the graphics. I was never able to get this method to work to my satisfaction. I preferred the two sheet method with the white on a separate sheet.

Neither is really a deal breaker if someone wants to print their own or sell some decals as long as the quality is there and the white is opaque enough. It's a good option and way less expensive that the laser printers that are several thousand dollars, like the one I have. Ouch, lol.

I've looked onto the Ghost White toner in the past but never tried it. If the opacity of this toner is good then this set up should be able to make really good decals. Of course as long as the artwork itself is good.


.


Last edited by mprmprmpr on Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:45 am; edited 4 times in total
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mprmprmpr



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveVan wrote:
The input data is the most important part. I use CorelDraw 15.....and since CorelDraw03. I am 100% self taught so anyone can do it but the learning curve is tough. I learn everyday for over 20 years now. I was AI before CDR.


I agree with Dave, this is key, and also agree, it ain't easy.

.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I researched it and from what I can tell it would be hard to get small decals right. You have to run the decal through twice. Once with a color toner cartridge and then again with the white toner cartridge. If you could get it to run through the printer exactly the same each time, it would be fine but I doubt if that would happen. Only way to find out is to buy the printer and the ghost toner cartridge, try it, and see what happens. To big of an investment for me to just give it a try and hope it works.
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mprmprmpr



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
I researched it and from what I can tell it would be hard to get small decals right. You have to run the decal through twice. Once with a color toner cartridge and then again with the white toner cartridge. If you could get it to run through the printer exactly the same each time, it would be fine but I doubt if that would happen. Only way to find out is to buy the printer and the ghost toner cartridge, try it, and see what happens. To big of an investment for me to just give it a try and hope it works.


Yup, that's what I was talking about, except you have to run the white first, not the color. It's impossible to get the color to register exactly over the white. That may be fine printing large graphics but not in 1:24 or 1:25 scale. So you'd have to use the two sheet method.

.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
I researched it and from what I can tell it would be hard to get small decals right. You have to run the decal through twice. Once with a color toner cartridge and then again with the white toner cartridge. If you could get it to run through the printer exactly the same each time, it would be fine but I doubt if that would happen. Only way to find out is to buy the printer and the ghost toner cartridge, try it, and see what happens. To big of an investment for me to just give it a try and hope it works.


Okay, I should have read mprmprmpr's post first. Never thought of just doing the white part separate from the color/black part. Then do your underlay first and then the color decal on top of it. By the way Staples sells the printer a lot cheaper then micro mark but its never in stock. But they don't sell the ghost toner so I guess you would have to get that from micro mark or have it shipped from gerrmany.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazon sells the printer for $219 and the white cartridge for $234.
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mprmprmpr



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ghost White toner is available for a few different printers, not just the one Micro Mark is offering.

.
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Bill J



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once paid way too much money for an Alps 5000 so I could make decals for myself. What I first learned was that the printer did not like Windows 2000 (it's been awhile) and the next thing I learned was that I had no patience for learning to make the artwork.

So I took a major hit selling the Alps and now totally depend on others to make decals. I do have a whole new appreciation for everyone that makes decals, both to sell and for personal use. It is not easy and no magic will make it easy. I would invest in trying to make artwork before I bought any printer, you might save yourself some big money.

To all the decal makers, your talent and patience is duly noted!
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vast majority of cars I do are 1960's and 1970's vintage. I do the vast majority of my artwork using Microsoft Powerpoint. It requires no artistic ability at all. These were all done using powerpoint......






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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I may pull the trigger on this printer. Not from Micro-Mark as I can get the printer and the white toner for less than $450 elsewhere. Being able to do white would open up lots of cars for me to build. If I do this it will be over the next month or so. I'll let you know what happens.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to know how it does. My screen printer is closing at years end so I need a new way to print decals.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis O wrote:
I think I may pull the trigger on this printer. Not from Micro-Mark as I can get the printer and the white toner for less than $450 elsewhere. Being able to do white would open up lots of cars for me to build. If I do this it will be over the next month or so. I'll let you know what happens.


Looking forward to seeing how it works out for you. I would love to find an inexpensive way to make white decals. Hopefully you can post your findings on this new deal so we can see if its a viable alternative.
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mprmprmpr



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be interesting to see how opaque the white is. I got a Ghost White sample awhile back and I wasn't that impressed so I went a different route. Although they may have made improvements in the toner since. With all of the different printers and ways I've laser printed white, one layer of white is never opaque enough IMO. This is the reason I supply a separate white underlay sheet with my decals. One sheet of just white, and one sheet of color with white under it. You could just print two white sheets with this printer and then one sheet of just color, but that is three sheets per decal. If using for personal stuff it's not that big a deal, but some people don't like to deal with a 2 sheet decal, so three is just that much more of an issue for them.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,
Your stuff is great.......My Stroh came out perfect!!!!
I know you may be hesitant to make public what system/products you use....but as I lost my screen printer I have to find a GOOD method or stop making my decals. Thanks in advance.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark I'm doing this as my personal printer. I am fully expecting to double up the white. Selling decals is a thankless business not from ever doing it but watching the carnage online. For less than $500 I'll likely take a chance. Worst case I got a color laser printer. I do local hero cars and close is good enough. I'm in this to make ME happy.
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mprmprmpr



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis O wrote:
Mark I'm doing this as my personal printer. I am fully expecting to double up the white. Selling decals is a thankless business not from ever doing it but watching the carnage online. For less than $500 I'll likely take a chance. Worst case I got a color laser printer. I do local hero cars and close is good enough. I'm in this to make ME happy.


At this price point this system does sound like a great option for personal use without a doubt. I'm sure someone would also be able to sell decals using it. I'm curious to see how well it does.

And I hear ya on the decal printing/selling business. I've taken a few breaks from it over the years and considered quitting all together more than once. I started doing decals with "white" back in 2001. It was a whole lot cheaper back then. My first decal printer was a $50 Alps printer that I "tricked" into printing white. I originally bought it for personal use. I decided to throw the first decal I did on eBay to gauge interest. I had I never seen this particular sheet available anywhere else, which is why I made it. It sold for almost what I paid for the printer. LOL. As they say, the rest is history. A dozen or so printers and or methods of printing later I'm still hanging in there.

.
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halfbreed999



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I have read what all you decals guys have written and I think I will just keep you guys in business when I need decals. Have bought from a number of you and enjoy your work. Maybe when I have the funds to buy everything and play around with a very steep learning curve Ill give it a go.

Dennis O I think I will look into powerpoint as my decals wont have to be perfect for my short trackers.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did you buy the Ghost White Toner?
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw it on Amazon....
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazon is being a re-seller for Mico-Mark. You can order from Ghost White but it's shipped from Germany and I fear customs and shipping costs.
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mprmprmpr



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US Cutter sells Ghost White toners for several different laser printers and shows it in stock in "in warehouse". I've ordered toner from these guys and received it in about a week. Although it wasn't the Ghost White toner that I ordered. I believe they are located on Washington state.

https://www.uscutter.com/Ghost-White-Toner-Cartridge-HP-M254

http://shop.uscutter.com/search?p=Q&srid=S1-2SEAP&lbc=uscutter&ts=custom&w=ghost%20white%20toner&uid=584999602&method=and&isort=score&view=grid&srt=12


.
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Retro_Racing_Replicas



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: decals Reply with quote

just bought the printer and the white toner recently, I have printed some test sheets and it looks comparable to my HP Laser Jet from early 2000's.

The White toner printed fine on my blue paper, but some logos came out blue and may have been a roller that needed cleaning, tried on white copy paper and it came out fine.

Will test out some more for decals to make some projects.

Retro Steve
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I read is there is some setting in the software that tells the printer to use NOTHING but black (but in reality white) toner to do the image. Apparently the printer will introduce small amounts of colors other than white if it "thinks" it see them in the image.

I contacted MicroMark and they are developing a short video to go over settings and best practices to get the most from this setup. I expect to order the HP M245NW and the associated Ghost White toner over the next month. We need to compare notes.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If any of you have this setup or are considering it, micromark has 20% off the toner plus free shipping today....not sure how long it will last. I'm committed. I ordered the white toner.......
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis O wrote:
If any of you have this setup or are considering it, micromark has 20% off the toner plus free shipping today....not sure how long it will last. I'm committed. I ordered the white toner.......


Awesome, Dennis. Looking forward to your report on this when you get it going, and to see what kind of results you get. If it looks good and not exceptionally hard I might just take the plunge myself.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: decals Reply with quote

Retro_Racing_Replicas wrote:
just bought the printer and the white toner recently, I have printed some test sheets and it looks comparable to my HP Laser Jet from early 2000's.

The White toner printed fine on my blue paper, but some logos came out blue and may have been a roller that needed cleaning, tried on white copy paper and it came out fine.

Will test out some more for decals to make some projects.

Retro Steve


Steve, when you get some results done, please post the sheets and also how the decals look on a model. Also a full critique on the good and bad things about it. Thanks
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be first of the year before I get serious about this. My wife who supports my model building habit as well as my golf habit is getting me the printer for a Christmas present. The way it looks, my total investment will be just north of $500. I don't think this will be the answer for a decal business but for a hobbyist it may put simple white numbers and lettering within reach. It is likely that the white decals may have to be doubled. Time will tell. As an old computer geek, I'm anxious to dig into the settings and try a few test shots.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your following this thread check the thread on the Ward Burton 92 Buick that Hitman is doing in this forum.

http://randyayersmodeling.com/modelingforum/viewtopic.php?t=2554
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My printer and toner arrived over the weekend. It will be after Christmas before I start playing with it. I'm following the thread.
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Hitman51



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a few take aways from initial testing from mine as well as a friend that has the same setup.

-you will want to change the advanced settings on the printer to manual and select black only for everything when printing the white layer.

-to me 1 layer of white ink is comparable to about the opacity of 1.5 layers of ALPS white. 2 layers looks pretty good on a solid car unless you are printing over a transition.

- you will need to test if you want to print color over the white on the second pass. i found that while its close, you still get that thin white edge where it doesn't quite line up right. you can play with moving your artwork or removing pixels from the "underlay" layer to help with this.
-For me i prefer to print my underlay on one half of the paper then my color layers on the 2nd half of the sheet. its more work but i think the overall finished product looks better.

- it takes roughly 20 seconds to switch out the ink cartridge and about a minute for it to re calibrate between prints. in the grand scheme of things, for those that have ALPS, is fast compared to them with the multiple prints per color.

- The higher the resolution you do your artwork in the better. Im working on about 600-1200 dpi depending on the car.

-Hopefully this helps, i found the printer online for $218 and the ink from micro mark for $350 with a coupon. Considering i spent $200 more than that for my ALPS, i think its definitely worth the investment.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks fort taking the time to share the info.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be cool if some one would make a you tube video of the process. you would think that micro mark would do one.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost White Has some videos out there but none specifically for decals.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have read and folks have posted ....your white print is done in black art (just like screen printing) and you send it to the printer.....but the black ink is replaced by the white ink....printer thinks it's printing black but it's not.
You replace the black ink, and sen the printer the color file/art. If you dare you print over the white, if not you print it separate and user layers like Cady or my current screen printed decals.
Mark (MPR) does both ways and his decals are very nice. I have lost my screen printer, retired, and if I go the all laser method I will do separate layers as I do now.
No matter how much you read or watch videos it will come down to lots of trail and error and some failures before you find a method that works right for you.
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Hitman51



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Dave. The ALPS was and in some ways the best option for our hobby. It had the option to print in layers, metallics, and chrome. But its major flaw was its flaky at best, either the print heads would burn up or it would glitch out mid print and you just wasted paper and money in ink expenses.

I firmly believe that you can get these to line up, but it will take some serious trial and error to learn the printer. you may find that the second layer is a few millimeters down than the first layer. so you can plan and move the artwork down until it lines up.

I prefer the white underlay method and printing the color layer separate. this gives me the ability to see if i will need additional coats of white before i put my colors down.

The ghost ink i think gives you between 2500-4000 prints. in the long run, its WAY cheaper to do this option than own an ALPS.

Alps md-5000 or 5500 = $500 decently priced.
ALPS ink - $17.99 for white which gets about 15 pages (maybe) if you dont double it up. 17.99/ 15 pages = $1.19 a print.

HP Printer - $218
Ghost Ink - $350 - 350/ 2500 pages = .14c a print.

Not to mention the print quality and trouble shooting.

I have yet to have a page jam or a fault in the middle of a print that ruined a sheet with the HP.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you using the manual feed or the tray? What type of paper are you telling the printer you are using? Cardstock?? Something else???
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Hitman51



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis O wrote:
Are you using the manual feed or the tray? What type of paper are you telling the printer you are using? Cardstock?? Something else???


im using 8.5x11 decal paper placed in the tray at the bottom. I use the thick card stock option when printing.

when i said manual earlier, in the print settings when printing your "white" layer, select advanced settings in the print options menu, select manual, and change the drop downs to ALL BLACK. then change it back when you print the color layer.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hitman, you said you found the printer online for $218. Where exactly online was this ? Thanks again for your wealth of information about this new deal in decal printing. From seeing your work, which looks down right awesome, I'm getting more and more ready to take the plunge and leave my inkjet decals in the past.
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Hitman51



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Hitman, you said you found the printer online for $218. Where exactly online was this ? Thanks again for your wealth of information about this new deal in decal printing. From seeing your work, which looks down right awesome, I'm getting more and more ready to take the plunge and leave my inkjet decals in the past.


There was a few on Amazon for $218.i see a couple refurbs for $189 but you will need ink.

You donít necessarily need the 254dw, but one that is compatible with Ghosts line on ink.i went on their site and look up a few models until I found one I was willing to spend money on. I saved about $150 over the package micro-Mark sells by buying separate.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hitman51 wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
Hitman, you said you found the printer online for $218. Where exactly online was this ? Thanks again for your wealth of information about this new deal in decal printing. From seeing your work, which looks down right awesome, I'm getting more and more ready to take the plunge and leave my inkjet decals in the past.


There was a few on Amazon for $218.i see a couple refurbs for $189 but you will need ink.

You donít necessarily need the 254dw, but one that is compatible with Ghosts line on ink.i went on their site and look up a few models until I found one I was willing to spend money on. I saved about $150 over the package micro-Mark sells by buying separate.


Also, where do you buy your decal paper and do you have to clear laser decals after you print them like you do for ink jet decals?
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Hitman51



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bel decal paper (blue type) or tango papa. At TP I order the 8.5x14 as you get more paper for the same price.

And no you donít need to clear over before using. The inks on this hp seem to be less flakey than other home laser printers which helps when working with them.
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DaveVan



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 683

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bel decal paper is gone.......closed overnight.
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Dennis O
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 336
Location: Louisville, Ky.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a woman who patented waterslide decals (many years after they were common) and sued all kinds of people who used/produced or gave instructions that did not endorse only HER decal paper. I believe this helped lead the Bel Decals demise. That is a new cottage industry where a hack attorney patents an existing process and then sues everybody who came before them. They will settle for a few thousand dollars as the legal battle will cost $25,000.
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Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
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