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A long time fan finally joins
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Here's a good question, besides Petty and Nichols, I know of another company building Mopar race cars back in the day, Bemco, in the Midwest, thanks to Rob Wolfe at Mopar collector's guide. He did a feature on a restored Bemco Dodge Charger a few years ago. Was there anybody else? Let's hear more about some other chassis builders like Bemco.
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, though, there's a lot of Petty Blue inside that car. It must have been built that way as I can't see a studio going to that much trouble if repurposing somebody else's car for one episode of one show. I can see them spraying and numbering the outside and calling it a day.

I'm only going to say this because I don't really know and don't have the time to research it, but Petty did run a 1970 Road Runner at Riverside in 1971. Is there any chance that somebody on the west coast built a car for him for that race only, rather than ship one from the east? Probably doesn't make sense, but the thought crossed my mind that it could happen.



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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

That paint looks really fresh, but something that should help figure out this car is it has the right side fuel filter it would need to run it Riverside, so who ran a 70 Roadrunner at Riverside in Grand National or Winston West? One thing for sure, this is not somebody's backyard street stock . Sometimes the studios to pay the movie car companies to really prep a car for Featured role. I believe this episode was shot at the time CHiPs was at the top of the Nielsen ratings... for all you young uns that's when a couple of thousand people got a phone call every week about what they were watching and their opinions influenced what the networks had on. Wow this is really turning into a big fat history lesson isn't it?
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:25 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Let's look at Dick Bown's 70 Roadrunner. I don't know where I got Chuck from. Maybe he's a relation or a brother or son. I got a picture off Pinterest of the 02 Superbird with the fuel filter in roughly the same spot which seems to be a little bit further forward and lower than the one on the Petty car which we all kind of hardcore know is the one that Hershel McGriff bought. I found multiple pictures of #02 70 roadrunners and Superbirds which again, I read or heard something about somebody finding the original nose from the Superbird which was bought off of a dealer lot (!!!!!!!!!!!)and still had Hemi orange paint on it!
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of CHiPs, check out the photo collection on IMCDb:
https://www.imcdb.org/movie_75488-CHiPs.html

There's a Petty-esque Charger with a strange front end treatment...




Then what looks like a street car painted up to look like a racer:










And what looks like shots of the actual Petty car:


The car that started this discussion?








Man, my head is spinning!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Obviously, that's the same charger street car, and yes that is the Roadrunner in question that is absolutely a full-blooded race car. Where were at here is, no way was that car built by a movie car company with a roll cage and Fender Wells like that. Whose car was it? And does it still exist? It may. Look at that charger and the Chevelle they crash in that episode. That's Hollywood's version of a race car. Don't be confused, somebody on here will figure it out or even better my buddy in LA will find it.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Obviously, that's the same charger street car, and yes that is the Roadrunner in question that is absolutely a full-blooded race car. Where were at here is, no way was that car built by a movie car company with a roll cage and Fender Wells like that. Whose car was it? And does it still exist? It may. Look at that charger and the Chevelle they crash in that episode. That's Hollywood's version of a race car. Don't be confused, somebody on here will figure it out or even better my buddy in LA will find it.
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing to be confused about, except how TV shows at the time didn't think the public was smart enough or cared enough to figure out that they were not the same cars.... They were not even close!

I'll go back to my previous comment which is now backed up by yours. Why is the interior of the Road Runner painted Petty blue? As you said, they didn't build it, and by lack of attention to detail exhibited with the Chargers, they would not have gone to any extra effort to change the interior colour of the RR... So???
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john843



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Petty-ish Charger next to the Chevelle looks like it has some kind of re-purposed rear bumper off of something for a grill.

John
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Tom M.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The '70 Roadrunner that Petty ran at Riverside in '71 is the ex-Superbird. He left it out West with Doc Faustina of Las Vegas after that race.

The A post bar on the passenger side of the TV Roadrunner cage is 'way inboard, if it's an ex-Petty car it's a '63-'68 chassis but those cars (with the possible exception of the '68 chassis) had the main hoop installed leaning forward. I'm not seeing that on the side view of that car. And the '68 cars are accounted for.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

About maybe 3 inches from the top of the roll cage Halo, the roll bar does flare forward. There's a scene with the actress sitting in the car where you can see it. I knew that I saw this somewhere before. It does have the required side bars in the roll cage for the early 70s, but that could be just an obvious update, it is a race car after all. There is no original early Petty cars remaining correct? I know in those early 70s pictures of the petty junkyard there's an entire rear body cut off of a 65 that was last run in 66 cause of the GTX lettering on the quarter. It's too bad nobody affiliated with the Petty's is on this site anymore. I assure you that there's calls being made and there are now people looking for this car in the San Fernando Valley where I was told it was residing. Is there any documented surviving pre 1966 Petty cars? and to answer Mark C's obvious question, so they could get that shot of the roll cage! They probably picked up that car for next to nothing, painted it inside and out and shoved it out in front of the camera. They sure didn't do anything in the engine compartment! LOL! It is still okay to enjoy being on this form right everybody?
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
and to answer Mark C's obvious question, so they could get that shot of the roll cage! They probably picked up that car for next to nothing, painted it inside and out and shoved it out in front of the camera. They sure didn't do anything in the engine compartment! LOL! It is still okay to enjoy being on this form right everybody?


I obviously didn't take the time to watch the video clip of the episode because I'm still confused as to why one car is numbered 37 and the others 43.

My comments, in no particular order:

- The strange front fascia, in my opinion, is to make the front of the RR and the Charger look similar to viewers who don't know cars but would notice the obvious difference between a '70 Plymouth B-body and a '73-4 Charger. Again, just my opinion. Kind of weird, yes, but can't think of any other reason for the two cars having similar odd front fascias.

- It seems incongruous to me that they would take the time to carefully detail the interior of the race car for a couple of shots, yet not cover up the headlights and taillights in the 'crash scene' Charger. If you look at the interior shot, there are all kinds of details showing (like the unpainted bolt on the tunnel or the shifter plate, for example) that would just have been painted over in a Hollywood-style paint job for one episode of a weekly TV series. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but to me it looks like the interior of the car is the way they got it - further evidenced by the paint not looking minty-fresh, actually has more of a worn appearance, like a mid-season car. I'm not saying it's a Petty car - Tom has pretty much disproven that idea - I'm just saying that it doesn't look like a quick 'paint it and get it done in time for shooting' type job. But, I'm not an expert, you obviously have more experience with this type of thing than I do.


- Yes, it's always been fun and informative to post on this board. Why should that be any different now?
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:20 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

It's two different episodes. The car with the 37 on it is the same Charger on the "Drive lady Drive" episode which actually is worth checking out because there's a lot of very interesting footage of real Grand National races.
I already posted once it's available on Dailymotion. And you're right about the close-ups, the blue paint does look somewhat worn. Maybe we are looking at an early Petty car reskinned as a 70 Roadrunner. Calling any historians of NASCAR at Riverside! And I'm no expert! But I'm real good at asking questions.
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Aero426



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark C. wrote:


The car that started this discussion?









Note the tail shot of the 70 Plymouth and the painted over P L Y M O U T H letters on the tail panel. That would not be on a front line GN car built by pros. The tool box style hinges on the trunk and hood are amateur. No tin on the front bumper openings. As mentioned, it is not built in the style of a Nichels or Petty car. It is pretty much a crude nothing burger.
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points. It makes sense that they would buy somebody's home built car for the TV series. Obviously accuracy wasn't their goal.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Guys, look at the roll cage in this thing. That is not a backyard roll cage. And the car has a a fuel filler in the right quarter panel! There were no Saturday night specials turning laps at Riverside ever. This car has history and that main hoop of the roll cage kicking forward a little bit might be the key to it. And as far as the emblems on the tail panel, if you ever had a 70 B body Plymouth you know how sensitive that tail light panel is and they probably just cut one out of a car and threw it in while painting it. Looking at the front of the car it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case. Again, if this is a backyard car, it's a very well done backyard car.
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm back and forth on it, really. I mean, it's entirely possible if it was a repurposed race car with long lineage that all these details could have been changed a few times over. The right side fuel filler is a good point, also noticed the vent tube coming out of the taillight, though not sure if this is indicative of anything or not.

As a side note, the car does have a Road Runner/GTX hood with the raised center section rather than the flat Belvedere/Satellite version. Again, maybe it has no meaning, but is just an observation.



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George Andrews



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
Let's look at Dick Bown's 70 Roadrunner. I don't know where I got Chuck from. Maybe he's a relation or a brother or son. I got a picture off Pinterest of the 02 Superbird with the fuel filter in roughly the same spot which seems to be a little bit further forward and lower than the one on the Petty car which we all kind of hardcore know is the one that Hershel McGriff bought. I found multiple pictures of #02 70 roadrunners and Superbirds which again, I read or heard something about somebody finding the original nose from the Superbird which was bought off of a dealer lot (!!!!!!!!!!!)and still had Hemi orange paint on it!

Dick Bown sired 2 sons, Chuck & Jim, who would both race in NASCAR Winston West. Chuck Bown would later step up to Busch Grand National, where he was the 1990 Series Champion. Chuck also married Hershel McGriff's daughter Debby.
Regarding Plymouths in GNW, a quick glance of race results courtesy of Racing Reference.com & Jack McCoy's book Racing's Real McCoy - Sharing the Road with the Pioneers of the Wild West shows the following Plymouths raced in 1970: #02 Dick Bown -- # 08 John Soares Jr. -- # 28 Pat Patrick -- #32 Kevin Terris -- # 43 Frank Burnett ( listed as a '69 ) -- # 67 Jack Ickes ( listed as a '69 ). Note that car year & make listed in race results of the era, were NOT always accurate. Photos in McCoy's book are a better source for me.
Several items of note : Hershel McGriff did NOT run a Plymouth in 1970, instead using his own Chevelle in 5 GNW events, ( all in the Pacific Northwest ) -- John Soares Jr. would run his # 08 Plymouth in SuperBird configuration at Riverside in June, but also at the 1 Mile DIRT track at Sacramento Fairgrounds, where he blew the engine while racing Tiny Lund for the win on the last lap -- Kevin Terris # 32 & Dick Bown # 02 both ran Plymouth SuperBirds at Riverside in June, and Bown would also run his SuperBird at the 5/8th's mile paved oval Evergreen Speedway, where he would lap the field in winning the 100 lap race !!! ( Bown also ran a Chevelle in several bullring races in the PNW in 1970. )
As Tom M. noted, it was common for GN teams to bring last years' car to Riverside for the January race, and then sell it to a West team. Often the sale had been arranged before the car was raced, with the buyer accepting the car " As - Is " after the event. As well, the better - funded West teams would buy NEW cars from GN teams, arranging delivery during the West Coast events at Riverside & Ontario. Hershel McGriff / Petty Enterprises & Bill Schmitt / Junior Johnson were 2 that come to mind.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

I think Rob Wolfe at Mopar Collector's Guide did a piece a few years ago about the front clip from the #02 Superbird being found....
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been getting that magazine for 20 years.
Guess I missed that write up.... Crying or Very sad
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

I said I think it was Rob Wolfe in Mopar collector's guide, in the front newspaper type pages. About 6 or 7 years ago. If it wasn't in Rob's magazine, I'm sure he knows about it. But I'm pretty sure it was in MCG.
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George Andrews



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall reading that the Daytona front clip from Jack McCoy's # 7 GNW car was the one that had been found.
Maybe they both were found ???
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Aero426



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty sure that Jim Radke in California owned the #02 Bown front end many years ago. Someone must have it today. The front end from the #7 car appeared on a different race chassis for sale a few years ago.
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aero426 wrote:
Pretty sure that Jim Radke in California owned the #02 Bown front end many years ago. Someone must have it today. The front end from the #7 car appeared on a different race chassis for sale a few years ago.


Correct - #7 front clip was on the James Hylton car when it was on ebay. Turned out that car was driven by Marty Robbins for one race in 1970.

The #7 was restored with some other front clip... I'd assume McCoy had a few front ends...
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

That name rings a bell, he's a fairly big Mopar collector right? But where did the rest of the car wind-up? I know several Superbirds and Daytona's turned into Bonneville cars, but how many of them were turned into Circle Track cars? I mean real production line Wing cars with vin numbers. Actually an even better question is how many cars were built as new Wing cars in 69 and 70. Not rebodied older cars or 500s. I heard it was something like 25 + 2 Superbird Hemi drag cars.
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tharrison351



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

odcics2 wrote:
Aero426 wrote:
Pretty sure that Jim Radke in California owned the #02 Bown front end many years ago. Someone must have it today. The front end from the #7 car appeared on a different race chassis for sale a few years ago.


Correct - #7 front clip was on the James Hylton car when it was on ebay. Turned out that car was driven by Marty Robbins for one race in 1970.

The #7 was restored with some other front clip... I'd assume McCoy had a few front ends...

Speaking of re-purposed clips. check out the street Daytona in the latest Barn Find Hunter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMAQj0yA44&t=284s
25:05. The owner states the clip came from Harry Hyde and it's cheated up and led to the templates being used... Rolling Eyes
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Four Daytona's, an original paint Superbird, a gurney cyclone spoiler and a Talladega. And none of them are for sale. Just laying in Barns with flat tires filthy dirty and not for sale. If I wanted to be teased, I would take the 6th grade over again.
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tharrison351 wrote:
odcics2 wrote:
Aero426 wrote:
Pretty sure that Jim Radke in California owned the #02 Bown front end many years ago. Someone must have it today. The front end from the #7 car appeared on a different race chassis for sale a few years ago.


Correct - #7 front clip was on the James Hylton car when it was on ebay. Turned out that car was driven by Marty Robbins for one race in 1970.

The #7 was restored with some other front clip... I'd assume McCoy had a few front ends...

Speaking of re-purposed clips. check out the street Daytona in the latest Barn Find Hunter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRMAQj0yA44&t=284s
25:05. The owner states the clip came from Harry Hyde and it's cheated up and led to the templates being used... Rolling Eyes


Of course, as we know, templates were already in use.
The one fender does have an oil fill hole on it. The radius of the fenders around the tires looks odd, though. He says the hood is stock. A race hood is longer than a street hood! Hmmm....
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

C'mon! Who built that nose? Those fenders definitely match up to the Bonneville car from what I can see, I wish Tim Wellborn was on here. Even better, I wish those cars were for sale! Seriously though, anybody want to buy a freshly restored Superbird from the best Wing car restoration guy in the whole country? It's only a hundred and eighty thousand dollars! Pocket change!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

I am going to be stepping away from the forum for a while and periodically checking my private messages, but if you wish to communicate with me, feel free to send me an email. "Happy thoughts" only
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